Q: Do Troopers affected by Template Weapons with Smoke, or similar, ammunition have to perform a Guts Roll? 1. Yes. They’ve been affected by a successful attack. 2. No. Attacks that don’t have a damage attribute value and don’t cause states inflict no suffering. This means that troops affected by these weapons have not suffered a successful attack and the requirements of Guts are not met. Follow up: If Troopers affected by Template Weapons with Smoke or similar ammunition do have to perform a Guts roll, does this apply to allies of an attacker? A. Yes, only part of one option for Guts movement is reliant on an enemy or enemies having attacked the Trooper. All other options remain valid. B. No, Guts only applies to enemy attacks. OP that spurred this question:
I think we all know what an FAQ to question 2 would say; but until we find out that a friendly trooper's actions won't cause Guts Rolls, I do wish to note that the line about getting Cover specifically mentions "Enemy" Edit: I do think that aoe effects are meant to trigger Guts Rolls if neutral sources such as a heat vent, wild life, falling boulders, etc causes the attack.
Yeah, but that’s only a small part of the movement options. For friendly Smoke Guys movement option 1 should essentially be read as “Move up to 2” to completely leave the Area of Effect of attacks that don’t need LOF”. And options 2/3 would both be valid.
I realize it's flavour text and not rules, but it's still worth pointing out the description of Guts: "When Troopers survive a successful Attack, it means their body armor took the brunt of the impact, keeping them from serious injury. This triggers a primal fear of death, and survival instincts kick in. The Troopers' survival instincts can force them to recoil from danger and dive for cover." Smoke doesn't cause an impact, isn't stopped by body armor, can't cause serious injury, and isn't danger. I suppose it could trigger a primal fear of death, though, especially if the affected trooper had recently watched The Fog.
Primal fear of not getting dick punched by the monk you heard shouting china numba wan fack yuuuuuuu! as he chucked the smoke grenade.
Currently trying to deduce if a Medikit shot using BS Attack counts as an attack or not... It probably does... Military smoke/signal grenades are not light weight stuff deployed at concerts. They're not too far off from being incendiary grenades during ignition.
Hilariously, healing a Trooper with a Medkit could cause the target to stand up at Resolution but fall Prone at Conclusion.
One of the lemmas is “You just threw smoke at your own feet. Do you take a Guts check?” The answer to that is surely “No”.
well the ranged shot is treated as a non lethal BS weapon in the rule book that is affected by immunities on str and NWI active models so..... (shrugs) XD really cant wait for all the FAQs penned to rules
I do feel like, based on the rulebook description, Guts should be limited to 'damage' type attacks. With a couple of exceptions, Guts doesn't really make thematic sense as the result of hacking rolls either and is mechanically messy to execute since it will often involve you hitting the deck if you can't get out of the hacking area. I get the idea of something that maybe causes the enemy's suit to freeze up or their optics to go haywire or something but the result of hacking attacks being an enemy falling down starts to get silly.
Here's another question related to all of the above... the Sensor skill is listed as an Attack (p.111). When applying the successful results of the Sensor skill (the +6 WIP roll to discover all camouflaged troops in ZOC), it certainly doesn't count as those troops being hit by an 'attack', does it (for Guts purposes)? Obviously Discover itself is not an attack, but I'm not sure how to interpret Sensor, especially since things like Forward Observer (which doesn't read as an attack to me thematically) theoretically count as attacks for Guts purposes as well.
It's an "Attack" only so far that it's gonna take you out of your own camo, for example. It allows you to "Attack" enemy model's States or STR/W in an additional way. Explode, Berserk are also "Attacks", though they are not directly an attack of their own. Place Deployable is also an "Attack". The way the Skills are described confuses "Attack" as one of the Skill keywords on the khaki background with BS/CC Attack which often gets generalized as Attack. It's an unfortunate editing problem, one of many in the book.
It's a "successful Attack 'suffered by'" a Trooper. Unless LOF existed, Guts would result in the Trooper attempting to clear the Danger Area (ie ZOC). Consider the Zulu Cobra with Jammer: this seems a reasonable response to being Sensored. Tl;dr Sensor is going to cause Guts unless 2 is correct (that is being successfully Sensored does not cause suffering).
Is it certain that Jammer causes Guts? Do we have ijw's call or something? What was the reasoning? Again, this is a problem with labels / keywords. The whole "suffer an Attack" clearly refers primarily to BS / CC Attack, not any and all skills with an Attack Label. Do you "suffer an Attack" when a Mine is placed? No, so there's surely gray areas here and one doesn't equal the other. Sensor is no-LOF-required Discover, basically. Does Discover cause Guts from a Marker? If not, Sensor also shouldn't, there's no reason to, there's no "suffer", they won't lose W/STR or get into a Null State. They won't be affected by a negative state like Targeted. If Jammer causes Guts then that's likely because the target "suffers" a negative state, Isolated.
Jammwe's a BS Attack with a weapon with a Damage attribute. Why would we not be certain it causes Guts?
Can you please start referring to the entirety of my posts. I have no time for this cherry picking one line and arguing with it alone.
