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Does anyone think N4 Guard is a good idea?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Hecaton, Aug 8, 2021.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but if you use MSV to shoot through it then she'll have a hard time dodging. When it comes to assassin units like this you need every crumb you can get to save your units.

    Don't worry about cm in English. It's customary to use inches in this language and wargames, those who don't either convert or learn to convert.
     
  2. Sedral

    Sedral White Banner Officier

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    IMO, it should work like AI motorcycle: either you have your dog act as a peripheral to go and munch on people, or he stays near you to protect you (and you have a lower silhouette because you're busy giving him pats). Eventually, include a skill that allow you to dismount+attack as a short skill and in aro to make it more threatening, but only as a one time thing.

    ATM it's really hard to dismiss the pure suspension of disbelief you have to go through when andromeda's dog is munching on your TAG, but your other guy who should logically be able to shoot the dog can't because he doesn't have LoS on andromeda.
     
    #22 Sedral, Sep 14, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
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  3. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    It's an absolute trash rule with applications that go against everything CB's been trying to do with their modern design philosophy. How the hell did this get into N4? Kill it.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I can see a rather simple ways of reworking this thing to be less disruptive:

    The unit has an additional profile that is active at the same time. In order to harm the primary profile, the secondary profile has to be removed first and excess wounds do not carry over to the primary profile. Kind of like an N3 Symbiont.

    You can do all sorts of interesting things with the bodyguard unit this way without tying it to be purely a melee bonus. Like Andromeda's dog can be an absolute melee monster while Andromeda herself is not necessarily a push-over, making engaging her in melee essentially guaranteed gang-up. Meanwhile, the Alpha's Chappie could be essentially a Betatrooper, but if you strip that one away the Alpha themselves are basically HVT grade units.
     
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  5. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I think the easiest way would be make Guard a burst 1 BS attack that uses your CC attribute in place of BS and your PH for damage. That fixes the jank while still giving it good use cases I think.

    Either that or make it ARO only - after all it is meant to be GUARD not SICK 'EM.
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Someone really, really wanted Andromeda to be playable. She'd had multiple iterations of buffs.
     
  7. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Well, she is a very nice mini.
     
  8. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Finally got to play against Andro the other day, she's pretty ridiculous. Would tentatively say she's too good, but wouldn't need much to tone it down.

    Thats not the same as saying that the entire rule is broken though, just when it gets combined with a kitchen sink of useful abilities on an alpha piece
     
  9. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely gorgeous model, but they could have solved a lot of problems by just sculpting her hand separate from her dog.

    As things stand with her latest round of buffs, she'd be plenty good even without Guard.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The fact that it applies an option select to the opponent is the issue.
     
  11. Hisey

    Hisey Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, the easiest fix for Guard would just be to make it an entire order skill such as Berserk or Triangulated Fire.

    This way, Andromeda would have to start in LoF to perform it, either giving you a turn to try to shoot her first or she spends additional orders to dodge into LoF.

    It also removes the ARO baiting and uselessness of declaring CC Attack against her as an ARO when she can just BS Attack instead, causing you to Idle. As an entire order skill, you'd know ahead of time whether you could CC Attack back or not.

    The difficulty arrives with being able to use Guard in ARO as there are no entire order skills that are also AROs. So in that case it either becomes the only exception, or Guard loses the ability to ARO.

    I wouldn't lose any sleep with either direction.
     
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think the easiest fix would be to pull it off all profiles.
     
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  13. Hisey

    Hisey Well-Known Member

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    I mean, removing it isn't exactly fixing it though is it?

    If Guard is something CB want in the game, it's much more likely we see changes made to it than it removed completely.
     
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  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Sometimes it's the best option.

    The game will suffer for it then.
     
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  15. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I've played plenty of games having never used guard myself, and Infinity still feels like Infinity to me. I think I can live with its absense.

    Removing guard and giving the associated troopers +1B in CC would be fine. Still fits thematically, still a very potent bonus, kills the bullshit.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I was thinking of just giving them another wound to represent that you have to kill them *and* their pet.
     
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  17. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    The "no overflow" version mentioned above seemed better in conveying that.
     
  18. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Just make it so she can't turn it off to protect her against stronger cc models. The mechanic is fun and its fun to attack models within 8" with cc.

    It's the ability to have no good answers when u are a cc specialist that is annoying. Cause her base stats against other experts are pretty mediocre. So I like the mechanic, just wish that if ajax or chimera or valkyre got close to her, she should (most likely) die to them attacking as the dog over reaches.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There's what? 3 Guard miniatures? Two of them use Guard defensively and Andromeda is the latecomer to this party. There's something with Andromeda that's not quite the same with Voronin nor Alpha...
     
  20. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I like the concept but, broken mechanics aside, I don't like the way wounding the dog wounds its owner from a distance. Maybe make the dog a peripheral with good CC, and Guard a skill the peripheral has. Something like "if this peripheral's controller is targeted by an Attack from within their ZoC, the peripheral can ARO with a CC attack and move automatically into b2b with the attacker."
     
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