Does a Wip Check cancel Camo for Antipode

It depends. If they pass, they remain camouflaged. If they fail, the camouflaged is removed or perhaps it isn’t because the pack is in retreat and individual antipode troopers aren’t.

 

The Retreat state is what will cancel the Camouflaged state.

Just making the WIP roll doesn't fulfil any of the Cancellation clauses for Camouflaged as you've not Declared a skill and you've not made an ARM/BTS roll.

 

What isn't 100% clear is...

1. How cmd-tokens affect the pack retreat state? Individual antipode troopers aren't in retreat state. There is quote in the spanish forum, but IMHO it opens up a can of worms.
2. If cmd-tokens are used, what happens next round?

I hope that these questions will be answered in the next FAQ...

 

How does this open a can of worms?

The answer was clear: one command token for each Antipode to cancel Retreat [as they are individually a trooper]. Next round, unless you brought back the Controller and/or Antipode lost through Doctor/Medikit or repaired the Control Device through Engineer, you have to roll again because none of those are conditions that go away on their own.

 

• You may also cancel a single trooper's Retreat! state by spending a Command Token. If you do, the trooper ignores the effects of Retreat!until the end of the game.

Diving once more into the rabbit hole!

1. Individual antipode pack troopers aren’t in retreat. They don’t even have retreat state/tokens to indicate this. We are going entering an unexplored rules area when we are using cmd-tokens this way.

2. Assuming that you can remove the retreat from individual antipode troopers, it doesn’t affect the pack retreat state in any way. Is pack retreat get cancelled when all antipodes have non-retreat not-removed from them? What happens if part of the pack is in retreat and other part isn’t? How do you indicate this game state? What happens to unconscious antipodes? Do you have to use cmd-token to not-remove their non-retreat state to get the pack into working condition?

3. Assuming that you have managed to not-remove the non-retreat states from troopers/pack, what happens next round? Perhaps the troopers/pack are immune to retreat like other troopers. Or perhaps not.

4. How do you explain these rules to another player without a FAQ entry?

 

1. Doesn't sound like a problem relating to command token use, sounds more like your grief here is with the Antipode rule and Retreat! in general.
2. According to the answer, you have to cancel retreat from all of them.
3. Updating my answer above: that/those Antipode are immune to the effects of Retreat! and the Antipode rule relies on the effects of Retreat!.
4. So far I've gone with a variation of "Antipode packs may enter Retreat on suffering losses, according to Helllois on the Spanish forums you can cancel this by spending a command token per Antipode and this makes them immune to Retreat. No, I agree, it's not a good use of command tokens, but that's an option" and no one has really argued that it's wrong or unreliable. They appoint me as judge because I keep an unhealthy check on what's going on in the forums.

 

I also have to update my answer. Clearly the antipode pack is in retreat (and individual troopers aren’t). Therefore, camouflaged isn’t lost on individual antipode troopers. Or perhaps it is.

 

1. I have a problem with unclear rules. A much better ruling would have been to deny cmd-token use altogether in this case.
2. Does it?
3. This is precisely the problem. Hasty rulings made with poor judgement. Cmd-tokens have to be used on unconscious antipodes to get the pack out retreat state?

 

1. Why? That wouldn't have removed your problem which seems to be that the pack itself as an entity enters combat, though I don't see how the rules support the pack as being such an entity.
2. Yes. That's what he answered, see below
3. That was my answer being hasty without reading the rule which stated the trooper became immune to Retreat for the rest of the game. Hardly something you can blame Helllois for, now is it?

https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/resuelto-antipodas-y-orden-coordinada.24781/page-2#post-151249
Con un token de mando se evita que una tropa se vea afectada por la Retirada, por lo que habría que gastar un token de mando por cada antípoda.

Google says:
With a command token, a troop is prevented from being affected by the Withdrawal, so a command token should be spent for each antipode.​

Only dangling issue being that it didn't make it into the FAQ.

 

You are trying very hard to justify a poorly though out ruling made by Helllois. A better ruling would have spelled out how to resolve all the issues that I listed above. And no, they aren’t clear at all and probably 95% players play the antipode pack incorrectly. Which is kinda amazing when you think about it.

And for the third time, do you have to use cmd-token on a unconscious antipode to get the pack out of retreat state?

 

I don't see why that would be necessary

P.s. And besides, you're trying very hard to make this not work when it is fairly straight forward.

Even if you partially Command Token the pack, spending an order on the pack can be made to work. The pack members who remain in Retreat would only be able to follow Move and Dodge skills and they would be forced to move towards the closest escape path, which would quickly render parts of the pack immobilized.

 

@Mahtamori Sigh. You still don't get it. The antipode pack (not individual members) is in or isn't in retreat. If the pack is in retreat, then all antipodes must move accordingly even if non-retreat state is not-removed by cmd-token. The problem with Helllois ruling is that it doesn't take into account how this cmd-token usage interacts with antipode pack rules, probably because he doesn't know antipode pack rules work.

But lets be constructive. This errata will solve all issues:
"By spending X Command Tokens, where X is the number of (non-null?) Antipode Assault Pack members remaining in the pack, the pack is unaffected by Retreat! until the end of the game."

If you want to make a more FAQish ruling, try this:
"Antipode Assault Pack ofc counts as a single trooper. By spending a single command token, the pack is unaffected by Retreat! until the end of the game."

OR

"Command Tokens can't be used on Antipode Assault Pack in Retreat! status, because Antipode Assault Pack isn't a trooper."

 

I'm fairly certain he knows how they work, but let's just agree to disagree, if only because you want this item added to the FAQ and that's way beyond anything I have any input over.