1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Dodge in CC while pinned in a corner

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Kazavon, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. Kazavon

    Kazavon Uxia McNeill's #1 Fan

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2018
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    64
    A trooper (We'll call them Z) is pinned down into a corner in CC by two other troopers. One of the troopers declares CC Attack and Z declares Dodge in response. The Dodge is successful. So... where do they go? Or do they push both of the other troopers back 1mm?

    The wording in the rules (separate the user from his opponent) suggests it can, since moving the troopers would separate them from Z-- just making sure this is correct.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    They get to Dodge, but they won't be able to leave Combat as there's no way to move them so that they're out of base contact.
     
    chromedog, inane.imp and Kazavon like this.
  3. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    I'am afraid I'am disagree, beacause if you are in a corner and some troop engages you in her first half order, you declare dodge as ARO, with no movement, and in the second half he declares other skill, for example CC Attack, and you win the confronted roll, then according the rules the engage state never happends and the rival can't be in base contact with your model. If we follow the same logic here as to resolve the case expose in first place, in this case if you success your dodge never could avoid the rival to engage you.

    More, if someone move close to you in her first order, your ARO is dodge (you have to say where you want to go and end your movement), then the rival could do as second half another movement and finish in the way of your dodge trajectory... What happening here? You can't because in the rules says clear that dodge can't be used to engage (we have a order wich allows this), but then, which movement have prefference?

    In the rulebook says, clear:


    Dodging in CC: Disengaging

    While in Close Combat, in addition to evading Attacks, Dodge allows the user to Disengage from CC. If the attempt is successful, in the Active Turn, separate the user from his opponent one millimeter, so that their bases are no longer in contact. In the Reactive Turn, Dodge also allows to Move up to 2 inches.

    This is the only way for a trooper to abandon a Close Combat with an active enemy trooper without declaring an Attack.


    Rules talks about one milimiter, but not how this milimiter should be earned. It could happens that you were making a coordinated order and place your troops behind the first one, where none could move more...

    This why I will allow my opponent make dodge in order to achieve disengage, even if he is placed in a corner and I will separate the miniatures one milimiter. I thinks isn't so clear that the answer were "no, you can't".

    Best regards and sorry for my terrible english gramma
     
    oldGregg likes this.
  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    But your example situation is completely different?

    The rule says that the Dodging trooper is separated from the opponent, not that you move the opponent, so it's the Dodging trooper that needs to have room to be moved away.
     
  5. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380

    Yes, and the rules says that isn't no possible use this skill to achive base contact with an enemy at least you declare "engage". Nothing about "have room" is wrote but yes that you don't need to move nothing in order to dodge. So, isn't strange that some make the interpretation that you can dodge an avoid the engage state even if you don't have room where to move.

    In the moment you can do dodge without needs making a real movement in order to avoid shoots, templates, etc, it is clear to me that same applies to dodge a base to base contact, even if I can move to any direction.

    Maybe my spanish thinking make me understand "separate the user from his opponent one millimeter," as I could be move both figures, whatever I need in order to gain this milimiter.

    And yes, my example it is not the same scenario, I know, but I was trying to put another example in which could exists a similar problem. An example why the anwser should be yes ando no isn't taht clear.

    Maybe I didn't explain clearly myself.
     
  6. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,335
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    I don't know. Not separating the two models after a successful dodge roll because the disengaging model can't move seems to be in the neighborhood of putting Engaging models on walls. That's fine if you're playing a game where revealed hidden deployment figures and models get locked together when they overlap, but inconsistent otherwise.
     
    Robock and Urobros like this.
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    I'm not really sure why it sounds like idiotic stuff like putting Engaging troops on walls. There's a rules reading that supports my position (albeit with some ambiguity) and it's the most realistic result in that situation. You can't run away from your attackers when they've trapped you in a corner.
     
  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    You can't overlap a TO troop in Hidden Deployment with an Active Trooper as per General Movement rules. The Active Trooper declares the path he will take, the TO troop declares his ARO and reveals in the process, then the Movement is cut short as covered by the following clause:
    • A trooper's Movement ends automatically whenever he enters base to base contact with an enemy, even if the movement route specified is cut short as a result.
    So getting your CC troops into CC that way is quite legal and covered by the rules (although a bit cheesy, no question about that).

    The rules for Dodging while Engaged tell you to cancel Engaged with no strings attached.
    • A trooper can also cancel the Engaged state by succeeding in a Dodge Roll, whether it's a Normal or Face to Face Roll.
    Also the interaction gets a detailed description in the Dodge rules:

    Dodging in CC: Disengaging

    While in Close Combat, in addition to evading Attacks, Dodge allows the user to Disengage from CC. If the attempt is successful, in the Active Turn, separate the user from his opponent one millimeter, so that their bases are no longer in contact. In the Reactive Turn, Dodge also allows to Move up to 2 inches.

    This is the only way for a trooper to abandon a Close Combat with an active enemy trooper without declaring an Attack.

    "..., so that their bases are no longer in contact" doesn't really have anything attached to it that makes it seem conditional or optional. Especially since "Seperate" is not a clearly defined game term and the 1mm involved is more of an means to an end than a neat and tidy rules interaction.
    It's not a Move, it doesn't trigger Mines and there is a clear purpose to the structure of that sentence to make quite clear what the rules want you to do.
    Seperate as a verb is a two way street to begin with and it implies action for both parties involved.
    There is quite literally nothing that suggests for the Active Trooper being unable to get shoved away the 1mm if the Dodging Trooper doesn't have space for it.
     
    #8 Teslarod, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
    Robock and theradrussian like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation