Do shield 2/3 programmes have a target?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by inane.imp, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Scenario:

    1. A Wardriver DHD walks into a Nomad repeater.
    2. Four KHDS ARO with Redrum.
    3. The Wardriver declares Counterstrike.


    A. Question: What rolls are FTF? Does the Wardriver FTF all the attackers (at B1) or do they need to designate a victim of their programme* (and assign the B1 to that victim)?

    * Note, Shield programmes are not 'attacks' which is why I didn't use that term above.

    I can't find anything on the old forum which covers this. I know the general interpretation is that Shield programmes only FTF a specific attack, but I can't find a reference for this.

    The best reason that I'm aware of (thanks @daboarder ) is that the Shield programmes in the Hacking Programme Chart each have a listed Burst and the general rules for Burst:

    "The B value is the number of shots the weapon is capable of firing in a single BS Attack Skill declaration. This value only applies during the Active Turn."

    Or as interpreted for hacking "The B value is the number of 'shots' the programme is capable of 'firing' in a single delcaration of the specific hacking skill. This value only applies during the Active Turn."

    B. Follow up: If they do require to assign the burst to a victim, is that victim a target?

    This is important for Co-ord orders as it would allow a defence vs a surprise ARO while the other hackers continue to prosecute the intended actions.

    It's never come up before to my knowledge, so I'm more interested in an answer than I think I'm right.

    Personally, my gut feeling is that:

    A. you must assign a victim to FTF with a Shield 2/3 programme.
    B. that victim is a target of the programme.


    But the alternatives (either that both A and B are wrong, or just B is wrong) don't bother me in the least, and won't really upset any game balance (it'll make HD+s and EVO-HDs slightly more survivable when used as part of a co-ordinated order).
     
    #1 inane.imp, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Opinion: Counterstrike seems to follow the same functionality as a Reset does, with the exception that it returns any hacking attacks back at the hackers that lose Face to Face against it.
     
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  3. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    The final bullet point defining Counterstrike actually sounds to me like it counters all Hacking Attacks, not just one. But that could be reading too much into it.
    • This program may be used each time the user is the target of a Hacking Attack.
     
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  4. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think the lack of the 'Attack' label is the most compelling evidence in this situation. Burst is defined the way it is because of the context of it's placement:

    You need to understand burst to understand weapon profiles, and it's kinda your first exposure to the idea of rolling multiple dice so it appears in the weapon profiles part of the rule, so it reads as attack-centric.

    I guess I can't think of any other times you roll multiple dice for a non-attack action, but if some rule came along that said "troopers with this rule reset using a burst value of 2" we'd understand what that means and I doubt we'd try to recast reset as an attack based upon that.

    Reset is also written just as singularly (as opposed to collectively) focused although we accept that it opposes multiple hacks at once:

    "avoids a Hacking Attack or a Comms Attack."
    "even without LoF to the attacker, and even if the attacker is outside his Zone of Control"

    I suppose the other question is, is the hacking programs chart even rules, or is it just a handy reminder of approximately what the rules tell us?

    Personally I tend to agree with the above opinions that it would be reasonable to say it is a single roll opposing multiple attacks like a dodge or reset.
     
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  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    After reading the others comments I think they are right mate, I think counterstrike jobs em all.

    Certainly would give DHDs and WHDs a solid boost
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Just remember it doesn't have the attack label if they hack you through a repeater - Firewall's MOD to hacker WIP only works against attacks (the enemy should still get the BTS MOD)
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I still think they wouldn't get the BTS MOD. Because they're not targetted by an attack through an enemy repeater. It's their own repeater and their own attack that's hitting them.

    Edit: It'a the target of the Attack which gets a +3 BTS MOD: the attacker is not the target of their own attack.

    I think they would benefit from the BTS MOD if their target got Firewall Mods (ie they used an enemy repeater to attack through).

    But admittedly it is unique.
     
    #7 inane.imp, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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