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Devil Dogs

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Brokenwolf, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Does anyone else think that Devil Dogs are missing something compared to the other dog warriors? I would love for a redesign that leaned into the US Marine concept that "every marine is a marksman." Specifically:

    1. Give them BS 11 (to show that they focus on markmanship versus other dog warriors).
    2. Give them a Mark 12 option.
    I think that would give them an interesting niche compared to the other dog warriors and provide some more options for shooters in USAriadna.

    Thoughts?
     
    Golem2God and Dealan79 like this.
  2. Randomcallsign

    Randomcallsign Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'd like to see one with a bigger gun, but maybe if you gave them regular impetuous as a way of demonstrated additional training and drills.
     
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  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I thought that the saying was "Every Marine a Rifleman" implying that all US marines had gone through basic infantry training even if they end up as pilots, beancounters, or IT chimps.
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The k-9s should have light flamethrowers.
     
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  5. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    They bring sensor, super jump, CC and templates. If you can't make that work for you, there's cheaper platforms for pure aggression. Theyre great for clearing mines with the antipode, clearing camo farms with sensor and then ripping holes in skirmishers or clumped up dudes. They're a good pick
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Don't really seem them in vanilla tho so idk.
     
  7. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Vanilla suffers a lot of bloat and too many choices. There's no reason why it wouldn't perform well in vanilla, just that you've got millions of choices
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Or that there are other options that are strictly better?
     
    #8 Hecaton, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    Mask likes this.
  9. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Not really, it's a toolbox unit. Show me a unit that can fight, be mobile, has sensor and can shoot stuff. Antipodes are nearly there but not quite. Dog warriors are nearly there but not quite etc
     
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  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Except in Infinity generalist models are typically weaker. We call that "profile bloat." Again, not taken in Vanilla much.
     
  11. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    That's fine, I get it. The fact that cheap filler stuff exists doesn't mean the toolbox stuff is crap, just means the ITS pack favours order spam. You start playing limited insertion and your toolbox stuff becomes a lot more valuable
     
  12. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't have a place in standard ariadna because he will never compete with the strelok or the standard dog warrior for the jobs he is designed for.

    The only place you will find him is in US lists. You don't see him that much because he isn't a particularly strong option. He is a poor toolbox because his abilities don't sync well together. His +1 armor is overcosted and he lacks the weapon punch of the other dogs. Hi slow BS and lack of mods means he is a poor gunfighter. Ext Imp makes sensor hard to use. He really only excels in CC and not by a wide margin.

    As it stands, the puppy should just be optional for the shotgun. Having regular grenades would also help.

    Though if we were wishlisting they should change him to duo instead of a G:sync. Giving him access to cover mods temporarily so long as his puppy lives helps him make use of the shotgun or AP HP load. It would make him much more likely to survive to reach the CC fight.

    Also every time the puppy stands there when his master eats it is also dumb as hell. Having it go nuts (ext imp) on death would be much more thematic and fun.
     
  13. Kreslack

    Kreslack See you Space Cowboy...

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    I think one of the biggest hits the devil dog took is his loss of grenades. That is the best aro shooting attack (Or indirect solution) every other dog warrior gets. The shotgun rather pales in comparison.
     
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  14. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    They took them away so he could use his other weapons except they forgot to train him to use those other weapons.
     
  15. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I just wish he could shoot (BS 11 or 12) and had a long range weapon. Even without cover, having 6-4 superjumping shooter would provide something special. Its hard to understand how a BS 10 shotgun would be so much more expensive than double chain rifles + grenades. I like the K9 and it gives the unit character, but all a Devil Dog feels like an expensive way to bring high PHY smoke grenades.
     
  16. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    Heavy shotguns are pretty great. They are worth the points vs a CR and Grenades in raw numbers, but on the DD they cost more on top of it. :)

    The bigger issue with Heavy Shotgun dog is he is carting around his puppy which is kind of worthless for his assigned mission AND he is not that great at shooting.

    31 point HS solo would at least be decent. The math is still just not very strong for him. You are always better off taking 2 AP Desperadoes to get smoke. The 2 AP version is one of the strongest attack pieces in US.
     
  17. Kreslack

    Kreslack See you Space Cowboy...

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    If they gave his dog one of those fancy throwing hammers that might help as well. Least the antipode could contribute during ranged fights.
     
  18. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    True, but I would rather see him get a price cut. The other dogs get bonuses for low cost. (camo, FD, hammers, limited to frenzy) We get an AP CCW (which makes no sense to use because why would you fight with the pup when the doggo is significantly stronger) and no extreme imp and no discount for it.
     
  19. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    The K9 is supposed to attack alongside the Devil Dog and thus giving him 1+Ph und +1 Burst.
    This worked really well for me in the past.
     
  20. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    the devil dogs antipodeis the only source of sensor in usarf , right?