This was discussed previously here https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/destroying-consoles-in-supremacy.23862/#post-116224 but not resolved. Also, the mission wording seems to have changed in material ways since that thread. So I ask it anew: If I hack a console in Supremacy, and my opponent subsequently destroys the console, do I still score a point for it? A) Yes, because you score for "hacking a console" which occurs at the moment you hack it. The scoring doesn't happen at the end of the game, it happens immediately (this seems to be a change from previous seasons). B) No, because the mission says that hacked consoles can be marked with a marker, which implies that they are no longer hacked once they're no longer there. (Counterargument: the markers are just to remind us which console we scored because a player can't hack the same console twice. Also, destroyed consoles aren't removed from the table, they're just marked "destroyed.") C) Something else?
Actually, this question applies to all missions, not just Supremacy: when do you score the points for performing objective-related actions? There are no general scoring rules in the ITS document, which leaves a lot up to interpretation. As for the answer, I am leaning towards the 1st option because of this text in the scenario rules: > A Hacked Console can be Hacked again by the other player, applying the same procedure. In this case, both players will account that Console. This basically says to me that each team is trying to download some data from a console, and by downloading it yourself and then destroying the console you effectively prevent the opponent from learning the console's dirty secrets.
That's my leaning too, for the same reason. It's also how our local TO provisionally ruled it for a tournament yesterday. But we're far from certain! @ijw , do you have a ruling?
Timing doesn't matter. You score points for hacking a console with no extra conditions applied. Doesn't matter if the console survives the game, only whether you hacked it or not, because the rules do not say the console needs to be intact. In fact, hacking a console and then destroying it is a tactic to use to prevent your opponent from scoring it.
I think what @QueensGambit is trying to say here is that while the scoring conditions state this: there is no disambiguation of what counts as a Hacked Console. Specifically, since it's in the scoring conditions, it is very important to provide this disambiguation, as the text "1 Objective Point for each Hacked Console" implies the existence of some token. ITS rules would certainly benefit from making a clear statement for every scenario objective on: * what are the requirements to fulfil the objective (exist currently, but often need post-release clarifications, so can be improved); * when are the points scored for this objective (inconsistent: some scenarios state this, some don't); * if it is possible to score a variable amount of points for the objective, how many points are scored for each distinctive way to fulfil the objective (exists currently and seems to be fine). UPD: In a perfect world, I would introduce a simple structure for scenario objectives block, where "instant" objectives are separated from "at the end of the round" objectives and "at the end of the game" objectives. This would make everyone's (players', TOs', @ijw, @Koni) life a lot simpler by providing proactive clarifications.
You seem to be asking for extra clarification rather than a solution to a problem. The mission gives rules for how you hack a console and it follows from English and is inferred by the rules that the console becomes hacked. It does not follow from the rules nor from English that a console stops being hacked just because it passes into the Destroyed State, this is in fact an inference from real life common sense. As such I'd say that regardless if you see "Hacked Console" as a past tense action or as a subject, it works either way. Someone claiming otherwise would arguably have to prove that this is indisputably wrong. Additionally, consider that the objective of the mission is to "Hack a Console" not to have a hacked console. What you're underlining is an elaboration, not the objective. You score points when you hack a console.
I think all three of us agree that the answer is probably "destroyed consoles are still scored," so I'm not sure what the conversation is about at this point? If you two are debating something, I don't know what it is since as far as I can tell you're saying the exact same thing. So far we don't have a ruling, but we have a consensus from everyone who has chosen to post to the thread, which by forum standards is almost as good as a ruling. So unless @ijw weighs in, I think the question is answered.
@Mahtamori, the only thing I'm currently advocating for is making scenario objectives clearer (I expressed my understanding of this mission in one of the earlier posts). However, English is not my 1st language, and it is not the 1st language for CB and many other people who play this game, so clear unambigious wording is essential.
