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Designated State

Discussion in 'Rules suggestions' started by Mahtamori, Sep 30, 2022.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The goal here is simple. Disconnect the functionality of hacking programs to enable orbital bombardment and let this be a unique feature of the Forward Observer skill. Additionally, letting these states stack for BS Attacks while providing a unique counter-play feature of the Forward Observer skill allows both states to co-exist and remain valid without mutual overlap.
    1. Change Forward Observer label "State: Targeted" to "State: Designated"
    2. Change the line in BS Attack (Guided) to
      "During the Active Turn, they may perform a BS Attack against a target in Designated State, without requiring LoF. They will perform a BS Roll with a +6 MOD, ignoring all other MODs except those imposed by ECM or TinBots to Guided Attacks. (See FAQs & Errata. Cannot be combined with Speculative Attack.)"
    3. Add the Designated State;
    Activation
    • The Trooper suffered a successful Attack or Effect using an Ammunition, or a game condition or Scenario Special Rule, capable of causing this state.
    Effects
    Cancellation
    • The affected Trooper successfully passes a Normal or Face to Face Reset Roll, applying a -3 WIP MOD.
    • A Trooper with the Engineer Special Skill (or an equivalent Skill) may cancel the state by spending one Short Skill of an Order while in Silhouette contact with the affected Trooper, and passing a Normal WIP Roll (or the Roll specified by the Special Skill or Scenario).

    (Maybe it would even make sense for this state, being more physical in nature, to be removable through, and penalize, Dodge rolls)
     
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  2. LeGweg

    LeGweg Lucky dice roller

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    I agree that there is something to do in the love triangle hack/forward observer/GML and your solution is elegant. I see one small issue:

    Both "State : Targeted" and "State : Designated" would offer same +3BS bonus, and it's redundant in an already complex rule system.

    Remove the effect "Any Trooper declaring a BS Attack against a Trooper in the Designated State gains a +3 MOD to the Attribute used to perform that Attack." from State : Designated and keep it for State : Targeted.
    This way, we have 1 State used as a BS enhancer and another one as Guided tool.

    Targeted State was nice before N4, the issue is more how it's applied : targeted trough Spotlight is far too safe as an approach.
    Maybe give EVO hackers a program to counter this ? U-Turn or something like a Fairy Dust but against Guided attacks.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I believe there needs to be something reasonably substantial benefit if your AVA 1 remote eats dirt :)

    Also making people feel forced to bring those remotes isn't desirable in my opinion as Forward Observer is very common. There are of course other effects you could impose on the target such as having targets in the state simply have NFB and thus preventing Mimetism, Camo, White Noise, etc.
    The +3 isn't the same MOD as Targeted so it'll stack just like all MODs do. It's fairly simple in that regard, but tallying up a lot of MODs can get tedious if a player decides to go ham applying them
     
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  4. Methuselah

    Methuselah Well-Known Member

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    This is extremely well written. Thanks for that.

    IMO, this change would have players drop SML's from their lists. 1.5 SWC and 16-18pts is too much in most armies if the SML play is harder to pull off or can't be used defensively. SML would be relegated to just another niche play that almost no one uses. Maybe thats ok though?
     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Aight, now all we need to do is make a facebook group and hammer on this topic, while banning anyone who disagrees with us so it looks like we have consensus.
     
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  6. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I think this would just make Guided completely irrelevant.

    Forward Observer is such a poor skill.

    I think the issue to guided isn't that it exists and that it's an option, but that it has very limited counterplay. Removing it as a viable option would make the game worse imo.

    I'd much prefer if we had more ways to block guided (similar to Impersonation state near valuable targers). Ways to defend that are also not just "opposite with more dice, like U-turn was".

    I think allowing KHD to start in Impersonation State, reintroducing Nullifiers with Minelayer, or something along those lines would still allow Guided to be strong, but would also allow you to protect yourself against it.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Thank you :)

    Depends. I think this is a good season to test it, when everyone has access to TacAware Marksmanship FOs. That said, light infantry missile launchers tend to be in the same price range but worse than the Guided REMs. If this turned out to be okay but not okay enough for people to regularly get missile REMs, then they could alter the base missile launcher to get a Guided mode so that people had more opportunity to use Guided onto Designated targets.
    The missile remote was quite good for IA and Druze back when they were Wildcards that could get the full bonus as that together with Marksmanship could beat opponents by virtue of raw BS. That's a niche some missile REMs could reclaim.

    By numbers it isn't a bad skill, but it could probably use a +3 range band - which I'm sure the free Marksmanship this season will basically show.
    Having it be irrelevant other than as a souped up Specialist Operative and granting Flash Pulse to 90% of units with it is a sad state of affairs for it.
     
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  8. Jumara

    Jumara Well-Known Member

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    Forward Observe:
    I feel the same Forward Observe is not great with only burst 2 and with a "normal" FO having WIP13 hitting on 7-10s (cover+Range/Mimitism).
    I do like the Guided mechanic and I do not feel like spotlite is to easy to set up.
    But the performance is hughly dependent on your Faction, I play Dashat, I only got Ava1 pitcher's and Ava2 Dep. Repeater and only 3 hacker choises.
    I did hit huge Missile strikes as alphastrikes but it took my whole turn and the game was far from over after that.

    In my oppinion you there is counterplay potential but you have to be aware what could happen as you deploy, spacing all your Minitaures 2Inch and having (Killer)Hacker's near your High value Troopers should get you into your turn with more then if they had any other kind of alphastrike attackpiece.
     
    Tristan228 likes this.
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