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Dealing with nasty long ranged AROs

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by teddygundam, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. teddygundam

    teddygundam Member

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    I've got a buddy who always takes a Kamau MSV2 Sniper and heavy rocket launcher fireteam that I just can't deal with. He usually sticks them in a high vantage points with cover. How would you handle this with JSA?
     
  2. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Common solutions would inlclude: trying to pick off the weaker members of the link. Pie slicing with a rui shi or msv kempeitai if they could get into favorable range bands. Apply oniwaban/shinobu/saito to face. Less common but maybe depending on mission/table could be shikami throwing nimbus and you use one of the better shooting platforms to fire through it.

    A lot is going to depend on mission and table.
     
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  3. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

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    We have a hard time outshooting stud AROs with any of our units.

    Having an option to coordinate orders is an addition that I’d make to abminster’s list.

    If you make that Kamau sniper choose which target to manage in FTF, you’ll eventually find some good numbers.

    Rui Shi, Ryuken HRL, and an infiltrated skirmisher can give him some bad choices to make.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Spellduckwrong

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    Yes, a Coordinated Order is probably the best choice in a given situation. However, if you want to build your list to win the roll off though, consider having a Shikami throw down a Nimbus grenade, then have your MSV2 Kempetei with Shock Marksman Rifle in a Core team start shooting. The Kamau will have B1 at BS13 and you'll have B3 at BS12. You should win that FtF more than you lose it. If you can't engage just the Sniper, throw a Smoke grenade down to blind the rocket launcher.
     
    #4 Spellduckwrong, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
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  5. Pr01yfic

    Pr01yfic Active Member

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    Also consider terrain placement. Having great snipers nests in the deployment zones, with fire lane coverage off the bat is really going to favor his list over yours.

    MSV2 snipers can really punish poor terrain distribution. I have had table organizers completely cover or push midfield all the tall towers on a table after bringing a pair of Intruder snipers before, just because it really isn't fun to be constantly pinned down every game due combination of open firelanes and deployment zone sniper nests.
     
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  6. Thaddius

    Thaddius Well-Known Member

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    Rui Shi with Marksmanship will generally take apart the Kamau link and any Helots that may be around as well.


    It could also be a situation of deployments. While I'm a huge advocate of snipers and making use of long fire lanes I dont think they should be totally dominant. There should be points on the board where your infiltrating/FD units can move up in the danger zone doing objectives/being a pain without the need for a direct confrontation. Also both sides of the board shouldn’t have dominant sniper towers. I like to setup boards so sniper towers have intervening terrain so they’re forced to move around or bring multiple long ranged ARO pieces which can then be isolated. Also a side of the board that is a bit more open to have those long ranged pieces being able to do things but also a side which is a bit more dense so pieces can also move up without getting blasted in the face.


    If you can avoid the sniper/HRL do it. Force it to move up and engage it with pieces that have better odds or where it’s making sub optimal choices.
     
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  7. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Unless i'm missing something, Saito doesn't have a nimbus grenade option, only Shikami do.
     
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  8. Dude

    Dude Lazy Bushi
    Warcor

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    Oniwaban.

    60% of the time, works every time.
     
  9. Spellduckwrong

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    You are quite correct. I had Saito on the brain for the smoke grenade part. I edited my post to include the correction.
     
    #9 Spellduckwrong, Mar 26, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  10. teddygundam

    teddygundam Member

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    Thanks for the input guys. I'm realizing more and more that I need to be playing to the strengths of my army to deal with threats. I'm definitely not leaving home without an oniwaban next time!

    Also, although I love him dearly, I do let my buddy set up the board most of the time and he does tend to leave somd very open fire lanes. Next time I'll have some more imput.
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    If you have enough terrain for it, making a very tight ground level and a rather open rooftop level with a few shooting lanes reaching down into the ground level makes a very interesting board to play on. Does require a lot of rooftop scatter, though.
     
  12. Hos

    Hos New Member

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    I'm still new to infinity, but sending in oniwaban/shinobu/saito to kill anyone in a 5 man team doesn't seem easy - no surprise and they a get a free spin to respond in a FTF roll, i don't see our skirmisher coming out alive.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    It's not ideal, no, but you might get lucky with a boarding shotgun. If you're really evil (and more than a little lucky), you hit someone not in the link team and catch models in the link team with the template.
     
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  14. RedeemedRyan

    RedeemedRyan Member

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    Kamau MSV2 Sniper is a 1.5 SWC 32 point model. Oniwaban ranges from 0 SWC 37 pts, to 1 SWC 41 pts, or ~0.5 SWC 47 pts if you take Shinobu (albeit smoke grenades aren't effective against the MSV2). But what I'm trying to elucidate is that it's a relatively fair trade in points. Additionally, if you surprise shot Boarding Shotgun the entire group with your Oniwaban, well you might take down more than just the Kamau Sniper, and now you've traded up.

    To this point:
    Let's level-set....you are playing JSA--which is a sectorial that requires a lot of finesse. Running an Oniwaban to kamikaze your opponent's dangerous ARO piece is a relatively standard play for the army. And, yes, you shouldn't expect it to survive. You are looking to trade it. But consider how much dificulty you've had against this Sniper link, so much that you've posted on the forums asking how best to beat it. If you can trade a piece of your army to remove it from the equation, I think that would be a profitable play. Now if that sounds difficult, or not the kind of aggressive playstyle you prefer, there may be a broader issue at work here: a mismatch of army design and play preference. I.e. you play more cautiously when JSA is designed to be aggressive, yet requiring great play finesse.

    JSA isn't easy to start out with. I did the same thing, and although sometimes it was frustrating, I found that the learning curve made me a better infinity player. I'm more aware of how to utilize activation order, and things like stealth, to neutralize ARO options, and maneuver my troops around the board. Working against optimal ARO pieces is definitely difficult, but not impossible. I hope you find the same!
     
    #14 RedeemedRyan, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  15. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    It depends a lot on the enemy placement, an Oni/Shinobu could perform well versus an enemy fireteam; if you can smoke the fireteam first, you can even use a ninja. Oni/Shinobu thanks to monofilament are better traded with elite HI/TAGs, but if that link is the most dangerous threat then go for it.

    The easiest way (but can backfire hard if the rolls aren’t with you) is just trade the piece, go to CC, use your burst 2 (assuming they aren’t good in CC) and just kill the high priority target; the shotgun catching 3+ of them is also a good choice, but CC is just more reliable with the monofilament and absurd levels of CC. You will get like 8 AROs and will be disintegrated, but if that key model is also gone you can call it a day.

    If there is no MSV2 covering the Fireteam, then use Shinobu / Saito / Yojimbo to spec fire smoke on top of the fireteam you want to target. This works better if you do it with a different model (like flanking with Yojimbo) to being able to enter in the smoke in marker state, but you can do it with the same model if you will face few/no AROs in your way to the template or can just recamo. In smoke just dice them all in CC one by one, or even 2 by 2 with the MA4 or 5 versus bad CC fireteams. Remember that in smoke they can’t ARO BS you back unless you shoot them first or they have a MSV2.

    This is way less effective but to consider if you just can’t get close; slice the pie in a corner to engage the fireteam 1 by 1, with cover+TO they will be at -9; but the fireteam bonuses (+3BS +1B, SS2) are dangerous, so be careful with this one.

    Ninjas aren't Dog Warriors/Achilles, don't send them head-on and expect them to survive.