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Dart

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by ObviousGray, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Hey there. Lovely Monday morning.

    I wanna start a thread about the hot potato of recent gaming experiences; some of you might sensed it from my past threads. Yes, Dart.

    20181029_082500.jpg

    This new unit is, sorry to say, but a top-class saboteur in my humble experiences.

    I mean, and I thought Guilangs are the best aggressive light Camo!

    C+ Camo means this bugger can eventually crack open any defense lines (Which I suffered quite a heck), Alpha striking over with EM grenades/SMGs are often able to kill off our main pieces quite easily.

    Problem is, when (and even) you invest your units or order to take her out, still she's a 34-pts SK. Which means the prowess that could've been used to take out the main pieces, or order cheerleaders, are gone for one heck Skirmisher.

    I had her down with Su Jian, which was her natural born predator, still it bothers me when I see a Bioimmune NWI uber-skirmisher hopping into our DZ, assassinating the target with its massive arsenal.

    If you had some effective experience about taking out this one, could you share a bit? She's popping out from more sectorials, and I think we should be prepared before she ruins our precious day and our IA.
     
  2. SpectralOwl

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    Not exactly Dart, but I've used the Hac Tao Missile Launcher in Hidden Deployment combined with a Zhanshi deployed at the front of the Deployment Zone as bait to wipe out other uber-resilient ALEPH skirmishers. Assuming you can predict a camo token's approach, a Missile Launcher can catch Skirmishers out of cover and out of range. Skirmishers are increasingly effective only inside 8 inches, which makes fighting camo tokens easier- they want to take dense routes that end close to one of your valuable units, or into obvious gaps into your Deployment Zone. If I recall, Sun Tze V2 also has some choice gear for dealing 2 wounds in reactive while ignoring camo, maybe give him a shot if you're feeling lucky. I'm a bit more worried about how IA will deal with Camo, best option so far seems to consist of sacrificing remotes to discover and burn.
     
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  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I'm not super sure how this thread is relevant to YJ. Dart is not in any YJ sectorials, and if you're complaining she's better than a Zhencha, you're A) right, but B) you should be in one of the several IA whining threads
     
  4. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Hmm, it looks like my intentions were not that clear. Ok.

    Im trying to gather up Tactic, or experiences of our forum to deal with Dart. So we can prepare to take her out when we see her being fielded.

    And I feel somewhat awkward being judged as 'Whiner'. That saddens me.

    On the side note, I like to not compare Zhencha with Dart. While it does seem attractive comparing two SKs, Zhencha is more mission-able versatile unit; Dart is more like an assassin.
     
    #4 ObviousGray, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  5. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Fair point, but revealing a Hac Tao ML could lead to a hard turn I suppose? Aside Dart got a *Bio*immunity, and that roles a lot against Shocks.. :(

    *EDITED* Im a dope. XD

    Like your idea about baiting. Should try the fishing play.
     
    #5 ObviousGray, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  6. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Wut? dart has total inmunity? ahh no, just bioinmunity

    There are several ways of dealing with her. On the last freakwars, I've played a 400p limited insertion+soldiers of fortune tournament. In One of the games I've faced dart inside a Vanilla Aleph list. she tryed to take out a mcmurroug I brought for fun and for smoke source... Se was rejected pretty fast after taking the first wound on a regular grenade.

    You may not have a McDog on each list but you may be missing the point. The fact that she's not too good at medium-long range can become a huge disadvantage. For example,
    • She could be forced or taunted tho enter close range against shotguns, or chain rifles and she can have trouble even with a SMG. Especially if the one holding the shotgun is a HI or a resilent troop in a linkteam.
    • Or forced to fight on medium range (8-32) were she's poor at
    • She's pretty weak weak against fire (just flame her with a shangji, a lu-duan, a Su-jian, Guijia, Xi-zuang a Wuming HRL...)
    • She's also weak against DA or explosive. Linked multis can take her out form 8-16 on only one impact. A multi HMG or a missile can take her down for good
    • I think lu-duan might be it's natural predator. High damage BS weapon with access to marksmanship and Multi visor on her worse range-bands. Plus Heavy flamer...
    • And of course she's not to found on CC, a crane can make minced meat of her (sensor+CCDA+MA3 and access to reliable smoke team members) A ninja or a kanren can also take her down easily on CC. She can even have some trouble against a G: server remote on base to base.
    The thing I fear the most from her profile is the E/M grenades. They can become a huge problem for Yujing lists.
     
    #6 Mc_Clane, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  7. SpectralOwl

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    Small correction, she has Bioimmunity, not Total Immunity. Hitting her with DA, T2, EXP, Plasma or Monofilament can still paste her with one lucky shot.

    Edit: Ninja'd by McClane above. Adding to the bait plays and as a counter to the E/M Grenades, in Vanilla a Kanren using Holoprojector 1 can be any bait you want it to, and has an 8.5-inch DTW, better CC and no vulnerability to E/M. You can also use it to hide missing points- a Hsien HMG on the table that is really a Kanren could prevent an enemy from expecting and protecting against a Tiger Spitfire or a few Ninja.
     
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  8. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    +1 For this. EM grenades make me think twice before advancing into her position - frankly, this is why I made this thread! Even a Daofei is in danger when facing an EM grenade.

    Lu Duan's actually fair enough, but I find them hard to draw LoF with their fat silluette. Any tips?

    Good points again good man. Still we are assuming we play Yu Jing intensively, so I got your points aside from exotic bullets.
     
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  9. SpectralOwl

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    Advancing through the E/M grenades will be hell for IA, but I end to find non-TO Skirmishers who aren't left on Suppression Fire tend to do poorly against even a Zhanshi if the active troop can flank their cover, and the E/M Dart doesn't have Mines. The Lu Duan will be a terror against any unfortunate Aristo sitting on ground level, but they are hard to move vertically, so Dart could escape by going prone on a roof at the cost of a few orders.

    I also just remembered that this faction, while lacking real Minelayer in its deployment zone, has Mad Traps on a few Imperial Service profiles. Mad Traps don't care about that extra wound, and the Zhanying has an even better bonus in Sixth Sense Level 2, denying Dart Surprise Shot and being able to choose ARO after Dart declares her second Short Skill.

    The reason I tend to explain even the obvious stuff is that I assume there are people viewing these threads who don't actively post. I've been lurking since just before Uprising and learnt a lot from these forums, so I consider it good form to explain things in long form so that newer players don't miss anything in my discussions. We all had a period where we looked at the stats on the Mobile Brigada and ORC, saw that it was better in every way but price than the basic Yu Jing HI, and wondered how the hell we were the HI specialist faction.
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I wasn't labelling you a whiner, just pointing out a lot of whining about the Zhencha in IA threads complaining about how it is outclassed by Dart.

    You deal with dart the same way you deal with any skirmisher, especially an expensive one. Disposable templates, flamethrowers and area control. YJ has pretty much the strongest two MSV2 pieces in the game and one should be in every YJ list (the Rui Shi).

    As for weathering the reactive turn, Kanren stand out as being really annoying for Dart to deal with. Darts threat level is significantly reduced outside of 8 inches, and Kanren with MadTraps both cover much of her threat area and make her waste time shooting stuff that isn't weak units. You've also got 4 Kuang Shi in your DZ so it's not like she's going to have an easy time getting in there without eating some chain rifles.
     
    #10 meikyoushisui, Oct 29, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Uh, really? That Viral bow and E/M grenade makes her vicinity pretty dangerous even in ARO. Im not sure about this.

    Anyway everyone's suggesting a Kanren. Noted that for good reasons.
     
  12. SpectralOwl

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    Warcor SSL1 also covers her threat range, denies Surprise Shot, and has a chance of connecting with Stun or Flash ammo that can shut her down for a turn. Having one near her favoured targets could be a real pain, or at least drain an order. Shang Ji and their flamethrowers make for good ways to guard the DZ or burn her out in the active turn, as long as they can claim cover. Krakots could be a royal pain to move, depending on the Metachemistry roll.
     
  13. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Both are B1 and in poor range bands outside of 8 inches. These are no more threatening than any DA ARO, really.
     
  14. SpectralOwl

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    You said above that her threat was reduced inside 8 in your original post, rather than increased. The Viral Bow is actually pretty significant; I'd have just said to roll over her with Sun Tze's Total Immunity at the start of the thread if she didn't have it. The E/M Grenades can shut down something expensive, which just sucks for HI and TAGs, while a DA shot could fail to wound and leave the HI active. Yu Jing really does have access to a lot of MSV1 snipers on closer examination, which could help, but they'd need careful deployment not to be mowed down by PanO HMGs.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very much this!

    If you don't currently fear EM weapons, I suggest a deployment to the JSA front to get re-acquainted with them.

    It's honestly one of my bigger complaints about Invincible Army, there's a lot more EM than there used to be, and EM absolutely ruins the day of HI, TAGs, and REMs.
     
  16. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    I don't get it. The words are colliding themselves.

    And I think EM weapons are more terrible than DA ammo, since it can shutdown a heavy target with a single prick of BTS save. DA btw, does give another try and it doesn't take you out instantly.

    I think you had some points, but I must admit I can hardly agree to your opinion, excluding Lu Duan solution.


    I see many people suggesting Kanren. Good calls, but my opponent, Savvy PanO, tends to climb her rooftop high whenever possible, and this make me think twice before deploying Kanren as an assassin.

    Deploying Sniffers are long skill intuitive attack, this will reveal Kanren and invite some free shots; Is there something I'm missing around?
     
  17. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Sniffers have the Indiscriminate Trait allowing you to deploy them as a Short Skill even if there's a Camouflage Marker in its area of effect. You can also do it from the other side of a wall and up to 8" above/below to avoid AROs
     
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  18. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom

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    Great. Thanks a lot.
     
  19. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Lmao I fixed the original comment, I had the wrong word. I meant Dart's only threat area is within 8 inches.
     
  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Its a toss-up, IMO. Viral is better if people are playing the order counts necessary for doctors to work, of course, but a single round of DA is just as likely to unconscious most units as a single shot of viral is to kill them. And against 2 wound models, they're literally identical except that they target BTS (which is probably a toss-up, lots of stuff is 3/3, and 5/6 tends to be more common than 5/3.

    And the viral bow is B1, that's a huge risk for her against any linked ARO with decent BS. Dart should be shooting her SMG the huge majority of the time.

    If he's on a rooftop, you can set up AROs to make him unable to come down without risking bad rolls.
     
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