1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Cybermines, Why or Why not?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Bohrdog, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    290
    I tried these out in my last game and they just kind of seem like a waste of an order. What is the point of a cybermine? Am I missing something here?
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    3,509
    they're so-so. situational at best.

    IMM-1 doesn't cause enough damage to be as useful as a regular mine, on top of the fact that they hit a very narrow amount of units.
     
    Keyrott likes this.
  3. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    512
    the narrow amount of targets is also part of their strength, over all I probably wouldn't bother, but the fact you can't just use cheap warbands to clear them for your HI/Tags/etc is a plus.
     
    Magonus and xagroth like this.
  4. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    651
    They are resisted by reset, not dodge.

    Drop them around a corner in front of a tag or linked HI.

    They are foced to reset and give you a normal roll, or oppose you, and likely be IMM 1. (Change face does nothing.)

    They're situational, but can be clutch.
     
    Solar, Magonus, xagroth and 2 others like this.
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,294
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    They're specialised in immobilising REMs, HI, and TAGs. Place one around a corner then pop out to force your opponent to Reset and risk unopposed shots, or get IMM'd and take unopposed shots anyway.

    They're highly specialised so won't be useful every game, but they're potentially more threatening to a TAG or HI than an AP Mine.

    They also can't be triggered by holoechos, Warbands, or Perimeter Weapons like normal mines, non-Tohaa Servants can still set them off though.
     
    loricus likes this.
  6. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    A different situational but clutch tool saves me almost every winning game.
     
    natetehaggresar likes this.
  7. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    651
    One Man's bloat is another Man's clutch ability.

    @TheDiceAbide was just telling me today about a different prolific posters opinions on chain colts as a side arm. (That the suck). Both of us love them.

    I love cybermines on the khd spektrs and Hecklers. Normally either of those profiles would be weak against things like remotes or HI links. Giving them cybermines makes them a legitimate threat against those sorts of targets, and can do things to set up normal rolls for your strike troopers. B2 linked ML on a normal roll? Yes please!
     
    TheDiceAbide, loricus and colbrook like this.
  8. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    What? I consider that a vital tool that Gecko gets over the alien Geckos. They're not as good as a lft but that doesn't make them bad.
     
    natetehaggresar likes this.
  9. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    651
    The particular context was druze shock teams, but when a chain colts is the difference between your whole link team eating a flamer or just one member....

    I don't consider DTWs bloat on pretty much anything.
     
  10. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    I don't really understand, this is like calling Mimetism bloat to me.
     
    Magonus and Zewrath like this.
  11. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    176
    I do think Chain colts used to suck on Geckos, but then Ironclad rules happened and my opinion has changed.

    Cybermines look like they are meant to target TAGs and Remotes, because they can't dodge them well. I think its a good deterrent and you could possibly generate a lot of AROs while the IMM-1 unit keeps trying to reset out of it, or even better, that unit doesn't activate the rest of the turn.
     
  12. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Ironclad didn't modify the colt at all.
     
    TheDiceAbide likes this.
  13. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    176
    Didn't realize Fatality does not work with DTW. That does devalue the Chain-colt on the Gecko a bit.

    I wouldn't say DTW are bad; on the contrary I think they are really strong. I just value those weapons more on units that don't impact my army if they get killed by the return fire that happens in these cases.
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,294
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    DTWs are always worth the points just for Intuitive Attack IMO.
     
    Solar, loricus and natetehaggresar like this.
  15. WiseKensai

    WiseKensai Rogue Interventor
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Here is a concrete example of how Cyber Mines were helpful, and what I believe to be a good use case:

    Git Off Mah Lawn
    Mission: Antenna Field
    Forces: Nomads versus Military Orders (300)​

    TL;DR: Used a cybermine to break a Seraph out of suppression and get a free round of shooting on it with my Kriza. Super worth it. Is it useful all the time? No. What it does do is make KHDs a threat against non-hacker, hackable units (the only two profiles that have it are KHDs). The Seraph would basically laugh off a mine. Do I wish I had an E/Mauler instead in this specific case? Sure, but the "double trouble" on cybermines is probably better odds, and I was committed to killing the Seraph with my Kriza anyway.

    I'd argue that even profiles that are expensive (encouraging you to "make their points back," which is also a trap) and universally useful (e.g. camo guy with a burst 4 gun in good rangebands) don't demand that you use them every game. I had a whole game where I just sat my Prowler Spitfire on a roof and he did basically nothing:

    Breaking Contact

    MIssion: Highly Classified
    Forces: Nomads versus @xammy's NCA​

    It's my opinion that learning when and where to leverage unusual or situationally useful kit is a huge part of improving as a player. Thinking laterally and leveraging weird stuff has made a huge difference in my own play over the past few years.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying you don't want to use the Chain Colt on, say, a Gecko, because it's ~50 points and that hurts more to lose than say, a 10 point Jaguar with a chain rifle? I don't want to misinterpret your point.

    In general, I <3 DTWs.
     
    natetehaggresar and xammy like this.
  16. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    654
    It's not uncommon to have attack pieces be hackable. If the plan was to use X number of orders to accomplish something with an active turn killer, then you run into this cybermine, you're order efficiency just dropped. That can dramatically change the tempo of a turn. It's not always game changing, but these small tempo changes have an impact that can sway a game in your favor.
     
    WiseKensai likes this.
  17. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    651
    To pull a @WiseKensai if I had cybermines to use on turn three I probably could have won this game. (Or if I had remembered to use the chain colts early in my 3rd turn).

    Goes to show remembering to use your situational gear wins you games!
     
    WiseKensai likes this.
  18. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    176
    DTWs are usually force trades. Unless your opponent dodges, your unit is getting hit with unopposed attacks that you may or may not roll well on. Its a bad trade for your opponent when a cheap 6-10 pt unit threatens 1 or more units that could let it net 5 times its points. When faced with a Gecko, its almost worth trying to take it down while you have all these free shots. I think the best situation for the Gecko Chain colt is catching a link team in bad position, because that would be worth putting my TAG on the line for. I love DTWs too, when I'm forcing my opponent to make tough decisions with them.

    Intuitive attack is a nice option, perhaps I haven't needed to use it as much because for the most part I have been playing with Sensors and Intruders. I suppose I would value it more in list that doesn't have that kind of detection, but it still takes an Entire Order.
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    The Chain-colt on the Geckos is also defensive, for when they get charged by a CC trooper with TO Camo or ODD.
     
    loricus likes this.
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    There are a lot of close ranged troops with visual mods that use SMGs or shotguns that turn in to bad trades just from the colt. The only thing I would trade it for on the Gecko is a better DTW or something stupid like Camo.

    This is honestly a conversation I never thought I would have. I would pay for it on every guy without a DTW if I could.
     
    WiseKensai likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation