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Cover, prone and elevated.

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Bobman, May 6, 2020.

  1. Bobman

    Bobman MERC
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    I see the passage that says cover is granted by any obscurity by scenery. Is there any equivalent to the prone and elevated position granting cover in Code 1? I can't see it.
     
  2. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they cut that part of Prone out.
     
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  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    If you are on an elevated position, your Silhouette is NEVER fully visible. Prone or not.
     
  4. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Counter argument: Prone model standing on 1” tall porch, S2 model over on the ground. Entirety of the prone figure is visible to the S2 silhouette.

    Similar situation: Figure Prone while climbing a vertical or sloping surface.

    Note that having the silhouette visible or not isn’t the criteria for cover. You need to be touching the thing that’s obscuring the silhouette. And historically, a flat surface you’re standing on doesn’t count.
     
  5. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    FWIW, while climbing you cannot claim cover at all.
    And any situation involving an elevated position refers to a position higher than the enemy silhouette. High ground is high ground if you ends higher...
     
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  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The strongest argument for "horizontal surfaces don't provide cover" in N3 was the fact that for many other rules flat surfaces were not counted as 'terrain'. Code One solves that issue with respect to Combat Jump (now, irrespective of whether flat surfaces are terrain or not, Combat Jump just works on flat surfaces).

    That is, I think "historical" evidence is irrelevant because the difference is just as (IMO more) likely to be a deliberate change as it is to be a continuation.

    From just the Code One rules, I see no reason why horizontal surfaces should not provide cover.
     
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  7. Bobman

    Bobman MERC
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    That's what I'm getting at. Elevation always gives cover.

    Just making sure I didn't miss something.
     
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  8. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Not sure what you're arguing here, just that "elevated" is poor wording? In N3, to get cover, the base of the "elevated" model needs to be higher than the top of the observer's silhouette, which is not the case in your example. I think that's still the case in C1 if you follow the "horizontal surfaces are terrain" line of reasoning.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    In Code One you still need the bottom of the Target's SIL to be higher than the top of the Attacker's SIL to get cover.

    If the bottom of the Target's SIL is lower than the top of the Attacker's then nothing is obscured so no cover.
     
  10. Bobman

    Bobman MERC
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    Sure. But it's 'small' things like this that make huge changes imo (much like the omission of guts). Means walking around on rooftops is super mobile as you no longer need to prone to parapets before the shot.
     
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  11. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Higher mobility, higher visibility. And visibility is a double edged bitch...
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    One of those edges is very, very, dull considering that you can still prone just fine on a rooftop. I still think I like this change, moving around on roofs are usually extremely difficult in N3. That said, I do worry it'll become a rooftop sniper paradise as a consequence.
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    We also don't know if this will persist into N4.

    Simply keeping the 1/3 requirement for cover from N3 eases the degree to which roofs provide cover.

    As a simplification for Code One it seems fine.
     
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  14. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    I can already hear the 15 minute discussions.
     
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  15. Florian Hanke

    Florian Hanke Does not know how to stop building terrain.

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    What are the consequences in detail – free normal speed movement, since no prone or horizontal touching cover is necessary anymore? (By "free" I mean not touching cover – one is hindered by enemy fire, of course)

    I truly hope that the 1/3rd rule dies with N3. One of the worst parts I thought when coming into Infinity, and they did the best streamlining move on partial cover with Code One. I do see @Mahtamori's worry, but the more free movement jives much better with my understanding of the advantages a rooftop provides (if slightly too free) – in N3 the crawling around felt a bit too constrained.
     
  16. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I personally think the trade off will be worth it if the 1/3 rule is gone in N4. I mean, it's not like being able to claim cover with a lamppost is suddenly going to make TAGs viable that weren't already...
    and for those that really can't stand it, you can always house-rule your own cover.

    Interestingly, being prone at the edge of a roof is now not going to provide cover as far as I can tell, so there will be a bit of relearning for those of us coming from N3 or before.
     
  17. Florian Hanke

    Florian Hanke Does not know how to stop building terrain.

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    Why do you think so? The discussion above arrived at a different conclusion as far as I can tell, and I also think so, as long as the target's silhouette is fully above the attacker's silhouette.
     
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  18. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    If you are at the very edge of a roof, what part of your silhouette is blocked? How does that change if you are prone?

    The answers I come came to are "none of it" and "it doesn't".

    ... and now that I've thought more about it, I was confusing the very front part of the silhouette for the whole thing. I guess, seeing as the roof will slice diagonally from the roof up, you will always get cover from an (completely) elevated position.
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That nicely summarises the reasoning. :)
     
  20. Florian Hanke

    Florian Hanke Does not know how to stop building terrain.

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    Indeed a good summary, and true, it doesn’t :)

    If the guts rules stay as they are in N3, it may be a good idea to stand back from the edge a bit, so that one can just drop prone on a failed guts roll/decision to reach full cover, but still being close to the edge.
     
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