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Corrigedor: Possible Improvements

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Del S, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Del S

    Del S Yujing(snow)ball

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    In the New Tunguska thread, discussion has accidentally gone onto possible improvements to existing units as part of speculating what the Rich Totally Not Criminals You Guys ship might get.

    But it's a point - some Corrigedor stuff is a little dusty, isn't it? Some units are fine as they are - but the Wildcats and Geckos for instance might benefit from a little adjustment. Brigadas also could maybe benefit from reconsidering their place in a slightly shifted meta from 2014.

    This isn't about the minis so much, BTW: Morans need new minis - but aren't getting them for a while. Their profiles, however, are fine IMO.

    So, what do we all think could use a bit of TLC, and what would you do?

    Wildcats could maybe benefit from a special link team option to drag a Daktari along with them to make them a little more viable, or maybe an ARM boost since right now they're only MI for a high BTS as far as I can see.

    Brigadas could maybe use a cost re-evaluation, like a fair few HI in the game. Right now there's an impression they cost more than they deliver a bit too often.

    Geckos meanwhile have become a bit of a red-headed stepchild. As one of the smallest manned TAGs around, it's more like the superheavy S5 HI that have become common - and it doesn't really stack up so well against them. I think they could use some heavier weapons or MULTI, like maybe a spitfire/red fury and chain rifle variant lacking the PzF/Blitzen, or maybe just a one-Multi-Rifle-And-Full Auto L1 variant.

    Daft idea RE Geckos though: Lighter AD:Airborne Infiltration variant for planetside ops. Reduced to STR2 and ARM4, this "Dwarf Gecko" could have flamethrowers rather than chain-colts and maybe carry a DEP rather than a Panzerfaust.

    But what's everyone else thinking?
     
  2. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    I don't what your issue is, but Wildcats are awesome.

    They don't need any of the new mixed link team b.s.

    As for Geckos, meh. They are fine.
     
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  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    What do you mean with Wildcats needs an adjustement? I did nothing but murder everything with a full Wildcat link. They were half the reason I kept playing for 1 year with CJC.
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Geckos compare really well to the S5 HI, they're significantly tougher, carry a specialist, cover all rangebands including a DTW, and can even spunt the pilot out when unconscious to keep fighting/scoring.

    The Kriza/Taskmaster/Gecko trio are really well balanced with each having their own perks and drawbacks. It generally comes down to personal preference. Though in Corregidor it doesn't matter how well they're balanced as Geckos are your only option.

    Wildcats work fine as a Fireteam that can shoot straight without spending Brigada costs, perfect for an aggressive or flexible link.

    Brigada suffer from the generic HI curse, a cheapo LSG/Assault pistol+panzerfaust loadout seems like the easiest fix. If I want to play a Brigada link team at the moment I'd be looking at Starco.
     
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  5. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Nothing in CJC is unplayable, but Carlota, Brigadas, and Geckos could use some love imo. Wildcats are already quite good. The SWC cost is high, but that is justified by BS13.

    Carlota is a Tomcat Engineer with a minor stat buff and an ADHL. There is almost always a better use for those 8 points. I would probably use her if she was a Doc instead of (or in addition to) being an Engineer. It's not like D-charges are rare, and Retroengineering is gone. I suspect she is one of CJC's least used profiles.

    Brigadas need a Haris option and are a bit expensive compared to Grrls. For example, the MB Missile Launcher is 7 points more expensive and is not really superior to the RG version.

    Geckos got more of boost from the ITS TAG rules than most TAGS because they are the cheapest. When those rules go away they'll be lacking a bit. A Taskmaster or Kirza fills their role better. There is no reason not to boost them up to the level of those HIs.
     
    #5 wellspokenman, Apr 19, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  6. Sergei Simonov

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    Right now my only gripe with Wildcats is the 2 SWC HRL. Beyond that they suffer from the same problem as every MI in the game.

    Geckos feel right ever since the specialist and fatality buff. I now consider using them in my CJC lists, though admittedly not much. I inevitably thing they feel better in vanilla, though they suddenly have competition there.

    Brigada are overcosted for what you get, and I never liked the argument 'but CJC gives you more cheap specialists to round off the list!' It only emphasizes that they are carrying the Brigada's weight, and I shouldn't have to switch to StarCo to use our flagship unit-- where they again get outcompeted by Grrrls.

    Iguana could probably use a revision as well. The operator getting the specialist status like most pilots would have done it. As it currently stands though, we don't get much.

    The real issue with CJC is that we don't get much for being CJC. A sectorial is defined by its links, and CJC is very dull in that regard. Alguaciles are boring default LI. Wildcats are fragile SWC sucking average joes. Brigada are overcosted. Jaguar/Massacre is good, if short ranged, but used semi well will slaughter a table.

    Still, compare these links to other factions. A link of Grrls will make your opponent's sphincter pucker. Haramaki ML will do the same. Bagh Mari with their mimetism are a legit scary MI.

    While CJC has no glaring weaknesses, it also has nothing that makes your opponent's sphincter pucker, and specialization wins games.
     
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  7. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Wildcats are almost fine. They currently have a role and aren't being used as much because of out of date meta concepts.

    However one role doesn't give them many lists. Additions for an offensive build would be nice but is inherently difficult in the game. But some options could be:

    Mid range non SWC Gunner, like a Marksman Rifle or a Combi that also gets Mimetism or MSV1. The raised cost would prevent it from being as useful for a defensive link.

    Spitfire Haris profile that does not pay the additional 0.5 SWC.

    Anything that could be useful on the offense but does not lower the final cost.


    Intruders could use some alternate profiles. Possibly a MULTI rifle, profiles with Forward Deploy 1 or AHD/KHD profile instead of the HD. Lots of things they could do to make that over 2 AVA possibly useful. It would be a fun addition but not a fix, all Intruder models have a very useable profile.


    If Tomcats need SWC on the DEP they need it on the E/Mitter+Mines.


    Brigada went a long way towards finding a niche with the hacker but with HI Frenzy links around they're a bit rough still. I have no solution. Maybe make another troop linkable with them.


    Alguacilles should change along with all LI links. Too easy to take and just place then forget. I find them to be antifun.


    I would never upgrade to Carlota myself. Make her more different than a Tomcat Engineer.


    I wouldn't touch anything else. More Moran profiles just for fun like an MSR could be fun but not a fix. Maybe raise a few AVAs that match Vanilla (personally I think Bandits and Moran should be AVA 1 on Vanilla and Hellcats to AVA 2).
     
  8. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I think this would help a lot, although I don't like to compare things to Grrls because I think they are a little over the top.
     
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  9. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's not really fixes (except Carlota) just a lot of options could be added without adding any new units. There are a lot of dead or unpleasant profiles and options that could be revamped. Don't really need a powerboost though.

    I don't think a Brigada Haris would be very useful.
     
  10. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Geckos get one extra wound in exchange for not being able to go prone and being able to be possessed. Also an unconscious model cannot activate, so you cannot spunt the pilot out when unconscious, or imobilized, for that matter. (Unless I missed a FAQ or something). Geckos also don't compare well to the Anaconda or Scarface, imo.
     
  11. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Pilots can leave unconscious TAGs. They always could before Pilots became useful.
     
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  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    You have literally always been able to activate pilots, despite the TAG being unconscious. It’s the core rules.
     
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  13. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The Manned/Pilot rules explicitly let you dismount the Pilot from an unconscious TAG.

    50% increase in wounds is pretty damn significant as it is pretty much the most important stat in the game, yes being a TAG comes with disadvantages but the Gecko is still a solid piece and Corregidor definitely have the tools to support it with Bandits, Morans, and Tomcats being regular features of lists.

    As for Annie and Joe, neither are normally available to Corregidor, Annie is much more fragile, lacks a specialist, and costs 2 SWC. Scarface lacks a DTW, costs 1.5 SWC, and if he kills something in the first turn can't take cover the rest of the game. The Gecko is also more mobile and easier to hide being a similar height but on a smaller diameter base. Scarface is still probably my favourite of the three but there's definite pros and cons to each.

    I do rate the Mk12 Gecko significantly higher than the John Woo Combis though mainly due to that sweet sweet 24" range.
     
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  14. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    I swear to god that I looked for this rule multiple times. That does significantly change my opinion of Geckos and all manned TAGs for that matter. I love this game, but honestly after 4 years I am tired of still running into situations and rules I don't know.

    I would edit my original post, but since I was already corrected 3 times (so far) that seems pointless. My apologies.
     
  15. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Oops didn't mean to dogpile.

    It's double the wounds until the Gecko isn't dangerous because of the pilot, unless the Brigada has a Dak nearby.

    Once you figure out their niche the Combis is pretty good but +2 DAM in suppressive and longer range make it overall a little better for a solo Gecko. But in the Duo I'm using the MK12 to escort the Combis to flanking position.
     
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  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yeah, in a Duo I'd have one of each but if I'm only taking one then it's the Mk12.
     
  17. Sergei Simonov

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    I'm another player that didn't know this. I am going to have to start using Geckos now, because that makes them pretty decent. twin APs is nasty when you are likely pretty close (if you were running the combis loadout for some reason)
     
  18. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I've taken Combis so I can afford that last Moran it wasn't bad. If the Combis cost the SWC and the MK12 didn't I would still take it in the Duo.

    They don't get to come out that often but your opponent spending 1-3 orders at a 5 ARM lump that doesn't generate orders is a pretty good outcome too.

    Most of my Gecko deaths have been from flanking so they're usually decently close, if watched they need to be within 12" to reach their opponent on order one, and can come out the side they aren't being watched if they want to.
     
  19. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    As, essentially, a 4 wound specialist the Gecko is far better than I was giving it credit for. I still would be willing to pay a bit more for some more punch, as they seem to struggle against tougher targets once your panzerfaust/Blitzen is gone.

    Does a Manned TAG named as Data Tracker transfer it's status when the pilot dismounts the unconscious TAG? (please say yes)
     
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  20. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    If Corregidor was released right now, people would immediately be 100% hard/wet/etc for at a minimum;

    Intruders (fucking Intruders man), Tomcats, Morans, Bandits, Jaguars, McMurrough.

    And would be pretty damn pumped for Wildcats and Geckos, which I massively rate. Cheapest TAG and cheapest BS 13 MI link around as well.

    Mobile Brigada, Alguaciles and Hellcats are pretty vanilla but none of them are bad and all of them are pretty cheap, which is a virtue in of itself. Iguana is beloved by many, and is pretty interesting and unique.

    The only thing I'd be thinking about for Corregidor is that their links are a bit straight forward, no crosslinking. But that's not really something most Sectorals even have anyway, and it's not something they need.

    Corregidor is very strong. If I was in charge of CB, I'd want to add a unit, maybe a Merc troop too, but mostly for fluff rather than anything else.