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[Corregidor] How do I Lunokhod?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by SmaggTheSmug, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    As in title; I got a Lunokhod a while ago, put it into some lists... And mostly it remained a big fat cheerleader. Only thing it did good once was burn a Fiday. Since then I have not been using it at all or as a Tsyklon proxy.

    I kinda want to try using it as is though, but I have no idea how to in a way that makes the Lunokhod the better choice than a Tsyklon or another unit.

    Unfortunately as I remake and delete lists a lot I cannot show you ones I used Lunokhod in, but I have a penchant for Wildcat Core or Gecko Duo (usually not at the same time).

    As an aside, too bad Lunokhod doesn't have 360 vision so it can't live up to its name and moonwalk up the table :P
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Lunokhods are a very Nomad piece of kit. They have the ability to shape what your opponent does without you spending any orders on them particularly when used in combination with hacking, but used unwisely they can be remarkably fragile.

    First, accept that a lot of the time your Lunokhod will do nothing active. This does not mean that it did nothing.
    • Passively its ~18" of area denial. Need a flank guarded from AD? Well, a Lunk will be extremely difficult to shift between Koalas, Repeater and HSG. 8 games out of 10 it won't actually "do" anything in this role, what it will do is stop your opponent doing something on that flank. They make ideal escorts for obvious LTs (even more so in ITS X) or covering the blind-side flank of an Alg Core and are basically designed to counter Liu Xing drops. (Although, if you're playing a Zone Control mission like Supremacy spend an Order on it to move into the zone to score.)

    Second, learn to love 6-4 Moves.

    • The Lunk can be a 0 SWC striker (particularly with a Hacker running assisted fire). There is very little that wants to have a Lunk appear on their flank within 8". 10" with Climbing+ will get you a long way quickly. Zondnautica BSG have taken this role* over (to an extent) vanillabut a MMLX Lunokhod under 8" is throwing DAM15 Impact Templates at BS18. This is HILARIOUSLY good fun.
    * But only this role, they lack the defensive utility of Lunokhods.

    Thirds, synergies with hackers.

    • With an EVO in an Overclock list you're looking at a B2 HSG / HFT watching a short firelane or a B2 Adhesive Panzerfaust for anti rambo duty. With a HD/HD+/AHD on the table, suddenly that Su Jian (or Achilles / whatever HI rambo has you worried) has to worry about dodging 1-2 Koalas, a HSG/HFT ARO AND an Oblivion / Gotcha ARO before getting into your backline. This may well force a lower pay off / higher risk tactic somewhere else.
    • Aggressively, Move+Move a Lunokhod within 8" of that pesky Pain-train; then have Mary/Wildcat AHD/Hellcat AHD Carbonite the Fireteam's point guard; then have the Lunokhod pop out and put BS18 Impact templates through the link using the IMM Trooper to block LOF.
    • Nomads have engineers out the Wazoo. Quite often simply threatening to repair a REM means that your opponent feels obliged to spend another order to kill it so he doesn't need to worry about it again. When this is an ARM3 REM, sometime it's more than 1 extra order. Using a REM as a flanker and then walking a Tomcat Engineer on to repair it is as solid with Lunokhods as it is with Tsyklons.

    Four, 'Place Perimeter Items in Stand By Mode' is a ZOC ARO.
    • The most annoying thing about running Koalas is when your Trooper dies before the cute little bastards deliver their explosive hugs. Get around this by declaring 'I place my Koala/s in Stand By Mode' when your Lunokhod gets a ZOC ARO. My default position is 'if in doubt set the Koalas', if my Lunk is getting a ZOC ARO chances are it's about to fight something (and maybe die) or the Koalas are going to boost soon anyway so you lose nothing by setting them in place. 10/10 it's more useful than Change Facing as well (-6 from PH10 is not good odds).
    "Stand By Mode. In Stand By Mode, the Perimeter Item stands still where its bearer placed it until activated by an enemy trooper.
    • Spending one Short Skill or ARO, the bearer can place any number of his Perimeter Items in Stand By Mode, pointing it with a Stand By Marker. This action is considered an Attack.
    • A Perimeter Item cannot be placed in Stand By Mode if there is an enemy Camouflage or TO Marker inside its Zone of Control. This rule does not apply if there is a valid, non-camouflaged enemy inside the ZoC."
    For CJC though... I can't recall having ever run a Lunokhod. Wildcat cores have a lot of the defensive capabilities built in, and Geckos/Intruders suck up a lot of points. That being said a Lunk guarding the blindside of a Gecko pushed into the midfield of Suppression Fire is a tough cookie for your opponent to shift (however, in CJC, I'd be more likely to do this with a Jag Haris than with the Lunokhod). Personally I find Corregidor runs more to bodies than REMs. If I was going to run Lunokhods in CJC it would probably to support cover the blind side of an Alg Fireteam (although, usually that is the job for Jags).
     
    #2 inane.imp, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  3. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Yeah, I love the Lunokhod and CJC in concept, but in practice the Lunokhod just shines more in the vanilla and in the other Nomad Sectorials. It's also a good Lts. bodyguard, but Lt. in CJC are either part of a link team or they are already pretty tough to kill (Intruder).
    Also having direct template weapon options on pretty much every unit means the tasks for the Lunokhod in the backfield are already covered pretty good. And if you want a fast attack piece you can also just go for McMurrough.

    So yeah the Lunokhod is amazing but unfortunately in CJC kinda redundant. :/
     
    #3 McNamara, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  4. Pr01yfic

    Pr01yfic Active Member

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    If you play against a lot of warbands, the Lunokhod can definitely ruin their day.

    Also on the active turn, an Assisted Fire HSG Lunokhod is really fun.. in close range you're doing +6, ignoring cover, and adding shock to your templates or AP ammo
     
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  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Yeah especially with a Wildcat Core. I would invest in units that give mobility options not defensive. Wildcat lists have the problem of a Core not being able to be everywhere, what they don't lack is defense.
     
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  6. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Abusing climbing plus to get to really obscure angles to light up a link with a heavy flamethrower or heavy shotgun is one of my favourite things to do. Additionally after putting the koalas in stand by if you're taking the super glue gun profile don't be afraid to stick him on a corner watching a fire lane, most people really don't like taking on a marksmanship glue gun and having their assault piece turned into essentially a garden gnome.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Enhanced Reaktion / Overclock tends to be better. B2 and either you win the FTF or you take a hit. If you take a hit and survive then choose to fail your guts out of LOF and force them to push forward into HSG/Repeater range.
     
    #7 inane.imp, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  8. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    In season 10 the Lunokhod is my new buddy in Bakunin because he can reliably hold a flank against AD. He doesn't do a ton, but the peace of mind he brings is pretty substantial. I've had a game or two where I activated it to wreck links that got too close.

    I don't think it's as good in CJC. If you want koalas, you're already taking Morans, and if you want DZ protection, you've got Jaguars. It's kind of like saying "is the Stempler Zond good in Bakunin?" Yeah, it's OK, but why bother when you have Pi-Well?
     
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  9. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    I suppose there is one reason. Cost. You get the area denial of both Morans and Jaguars for less than they cost together. Sometimes that makes a difference. Just like taking a 17 point Stempler over the 47 for Zoe and Pi-Well.
     
  10. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Here's how I think of it:

    Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    JAGUAR Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 13)
    JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)

    0.5 SWC | 89 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Bakunin bias, group 1 is cooler but group 2 is absolutely better.
     
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  11. micawber

    micawber Member

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    My experiences with the Lunokhod differ heavily. I completely agree about it's ability to have a big impact without ever activating but I especially love it for it's ability to become active at critical moments in the game.

    Even as early as in deployment the Lunokhod profoundly influences the opponents decisions with it's amazing area denial capabilities which it keeps throughout the early stages of the game. Then it just lies in wait for the opponent to make a mistake by opening a flank or overextending. A unhindered movement of 10" always catches opponents offguard and you can often swoop in with the Lunokhod and shotgun/burn some key elements of the opponents list to death. I can't count the times that I wenton a suicide run to to cover whole enemy fireteams with my templates. Sometimes dying in the rpocess but even then there is often a Tomcat engineer right around the corner.

    In my lists the Lunokhod is one of the attack pieces, problem solvers and swiss army knifes that complement the area-denial heavy core of my list. All of that without costing any swc. I'd even go as far as calling it my one true crutch. I don't care. I love it!
     
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  12. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Yeah, he's cool in Vanilla. First half of the game, defend the interventor, second half, rage with Tomcat support.
     
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  13. micawber

    micawber Member

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    I wouldn't know - I mostly use it in CJC. The Lunokhod is another great attack piece that, together with the Gecko, frees up a lot of the precious swc for the Morans, the Intruders and a defensive Alguaciles fireteam including a Lieutenant.
     
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  14. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    It is also great for planting that hard to remove repeater exactly where your opponent doesn't want it.
     
  15. Skaldur

    Skaldur Active Member

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    It (esp the heavy flamer version) is good for keeping in reserve when you are deploying second and you suspect the opponent's reserve model is a superior infiltrator or impersonator.

    They deploy their assassin and then you plonk down the 'khod right on top of it. Unfortunately you can't deploy the Krazykoalas in ZOC of an enemy model but you can deploy them just outside ZOC in the direction you think it will move in.

    A pretty niche use but it is highly effective at turning a potentially lethal assassination run into: They spend one order, possibly kill 1 target, then die a messy death.

    I have a theory that Lunokhods are especially important to TJC who seem quite vulnerable to enemies that like to get up close and personal. CJC doesn't need them so much thanks to already having things like Jaguars and Morans
     
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  16. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's still useable but a lot of things are less important when Jaguars are around.
     
  17. Darkvortex87

    Darkvortex87 Combat jump kamikaze

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    In vanilla the lunakhod is golden as other already said.

    In corregidor it is a bit redundant, since most of the time it is used as a defense tool.
    So, the only way you could use it is an offensive piece.
    Hunting links is an he'll of a job for a lunakhod, you walk in plain sight (if there is cover it's better) of the full link team and you put them in a dangerous situation, having to choose between a direct template or an indirect template at high BS.
    Of course, you are expecting to lose it, but it's not certain with ARM 3+3 from cover.
     
  18. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the replies.
    I guess that lunk will be more useful for my rare vanilla games or StarCo then. And for CJC it will continue to serve as a Tsyklon proxy.
     
  19. micawber

    micawber Member

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    Apart from the fact that I don't fully understand the reasoning here I think redundance is a perk in a game with a crit-mechanic like Infinity. The fact that the Lunokhod can do so many things for such a low pricepoint imo heavily outweighs the fact that aspects of it (area denial, CQC, fireteam sniping) are shared with other elements of the army.

    Hm that conclusion feels over-simplified. I say try it yourself and give the Lunokhod a go. Even in CJC.
     
  20. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I always struggle to fit one into a list. It's 20-odd points always seem to go towards another infiltrator or attack piece instead that covers many of the same abilities I'm looking for. However, some of the comments in this thread have inspired me again and I'm going to make an effort to include him next time!
     
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