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Confused Deployment

Discussion in 'ITS' started by RobertShepherd, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Just checking to make sure I'm reading this correctly;

    In ITS11, if you failed a roll to confused deploy, you'd only lose your marker state & minelayer if failing the roll would normally have caused you to lose these things (e.g. if you tried to infiltrate past the halfway line).

    In ITS12, failure causes these things to be lost regardless of what type of deployment you're attempting. So e.g. a libertos seeking to forward deploy would lose both its camo and minelayer unless it rolled a 7 or less to deploy.

    Correct?
     
  2. MattB89

    MattB89 Well-Known Member

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    Thats seems to be what it says.
     
  3. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    How about Netrods/Imetrons? They were equipment before, but LI now. A PH-3 roll is a fail (since it has to deploy via Combat Jump).
    For Panic Room, does that mean they are doomed to 2 BTS rolls at the end of the first turn, no matter what?
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Why is PH12-3 a fail?
     
  5. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    Confused Deployment replaces the normal roll with a PH-3 roll right? So a netrod or imetron which has PH zero and the skill (Combat Jump=12) will effectively have the skill replaced with a roll of negative three if read one way.

    Depends on if the (Combat Jump=12) skill means that it's PH value is effectively 12 for the purpose of Combat Jumps or if it replaces the value of the roll with a static number.

    Not sure how a replacement effect like Confused Deployment is supposed to be interpreted in this case. Since both (Combat Jump=12) and Confused Deployment are replacement effects one should negate the other, and there are nothing in the books that says if the rule on the profile or the rule on the mission should take precedence. Personally i'd say the mission rule overrides, and that's as an ALEPH player who always takes max netrods.
     
    #5 Iver, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    I'm not sure what you mean by saying they're both 'replacement effects', or why one would negate the other.

    Confused Deployment says:
    Any Trooper using a Special Skill to deploy outside their Deployment Zone must make a PH-3 Roll. Special Skills, pieces of Equipment, or rules that apply any PH or WIP Roll to deploy must replace it with this roll. Any MOD applied to the Roll by a Special Skill, piece of Equipment, or rule will be added to this roll.​

    My emphasis. If you choose to deploy the Netrod or Imetron outside your Deployment Zone, it will be doing so by using the Combat Jump Special Skill. So its going to be rolling on the PH value used for Combat Jump, applying the -3 MOD.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Ah, OK, I think I know where you're getting mixed up.

    You use the value in brackets instead of the PH Attribute value. It is not replacing the Success Value that you need to roll. From http://54.154.109.59:8081/index.php?title=Skills_and_Equipment_in_Infinity

    • Combat Jump (PH=10) means that, when performing the PH Roll required by this Skill, a PH value of 10 must be applied instead of the user’s PH Attribute.
     
  8. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, that makes sense. It's still a combat jump, just modified by the confused deployment
     
    #8 bloodw4ke, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  9. DrZak

    DrZak Member
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    Ian can you advise where a parachutist would deploy if they failed this roll on turn 2.

    would they deploy from the board edge as per parachutist since you seem to imply that they follow the rules of the base skill, or do they appear anywhere in the friendly DZ as per the confused deployment rules?

    thanks, sorry for attaching to an old thread, this seemed the most relevant.

    Wade
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    The answers in Infinity Australia FB are correct. Confused Deployment says anywhere in the DZ, and Confused Deployment is replacing the usual Parachutist rule.
     
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  11. Kumatake81

    Kumatake81 Well-Known Member

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    What about someone with infiltration(+6)?
    Am I correct that this trooper will perform a PH+3 roll when using some sort of special deployment skill? (No matter where outside the DZ it deploys)
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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  13. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    so if I have a unit with Infiltration (+6), due to confused deployment if I want to deploy it outside of my DZ and on my half of the table, I'll have to roll PH+3, but if I want to infiltrate it, do I still roll PH+3 or I add an additional -3 r(esulting in base PH roll), as per infiltration rule, as I'm trying to deploy in on enemy half?
     
  14. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    How is it difficult?

    The roll is PH -3, despite whatever it was (even if not needed).
    Then you add any other modifier.
     
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  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    It's an extra stupid step.
    Just should have had the final MOD or value in the Skill like Mimetism or Gizmokit.

    Example:
    PH11 Infiltration
    rolls for 11-3=8
    PH11 Infiltration (+6)
    rolls for 11-3+6=8
    That's a confusing and unneccessary hidden extra step other rules in the game avoid. Likely an N3 artifact that simply didn't occur to anyone used to playing N4.

    Generic Infiltration should either be
    Infiltration (-3)
    and "Superior" Infiltration should be
    Infiltration (+3)
    Which would also open up a level in between at +0
    Infiltration

    Imho the even better variant would have been to simply list final value. That would stop any confusion for N3 players factoring in the -3 by accident and opens up a wider variety of decoupling Infiltration values from PH, the "multiples of 3" and the extremely binary -3 vs -3+6 spread in the existing Skill. This is already possible with current rules but would be hella confusing mixed with the current Infiltration and Infiltration (+3) as the -3 MOD would not apply to Infiltration (XY).
    Opens up i.e. PH10 Troopers Infiltrating on 15s. Or PH14 Troopers Infiltrating on 10s.
    Ship has probably sailed for N4, no idea if there will be a N4.1 or something at some point. Nobrainer change for N5 though.

    This gets even worse for Confused Deployment where all those fancy words just mean you add another -3 on top...
     
    #15 Teslarod, Feb 1, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  16. Ashtaroth

    Ashtaroth Aragoto GP Organizer
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    hmmmm...
     
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  17. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
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    Disagree, cause infiltration example says it’s a negative MOD.
    So andromeda SV for infiltration with confused deployment will be
    1) your half : 12+6-3(confused)=15
    2) opponents half 12+6-3(infiltration)-3(confused)= 12
     
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  18. JoKeR

    JoKeR HAWZA Instructor
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    example of infiltration:
    "A Trooper with the Infiltration (+3), Camouflage and Minelayer Special Skills, and Shock Mines, decides to deploy in the Enemy's half of the table. They must follow these steps:
    ...
    Make the Infiltration Roll, which in this case will have a Success Value equal to their PH, since the -3 MOD for the Infiltration Roll is compensated for by the +3 MOD from their Skill."
    So i always thought it works exactly as @Kwisatz Haderach post.
    i see this ruling from @ijw first time today. any fresh thoughts, @ijw ? did we miss somthing?
     
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  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    I must have missed 'No matter where outside the DZ it deploys'. :-(

    You're right, it would only be +3 in your half of the table.
     
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  20. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    I may have gotten lost. I thought infiltration(+6) only applied if you attempted to go over to the enemy half. So a ph 12 model with infiltration(+6) in confused deployment would be:

    Your half: 9 (12-3)
    Their half: 12 (12+6-3-3)
     
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