1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Complex Guts Roll - how to move?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Mahtamori, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    8,274
    How to resolve Guts Rolls against one opponent is clear to me, but I haven't ever gotten the hang of what happens when there's multiple conflicting attack directions. I'm not sure if I ever posted this one on the old forums or not, I've been having this doubt for years now.

    Taskmaster advances forward in the middle of the table, but their player is not careful. As ARO, the hostile player sticks down:
    A) One shot from a sniper deployed in their to the right of the table.
    B) One Nanopulser centred on the CrazyKoala to the Taskmaster's left, touching the Taskmaster
    C) One Carbonite attempt from an Assault Hacker immediately behind the Taskmaster
    D) One Forward Observer from the reactive player's DZ and as such in front of the Taskmaster.

    Assuming all attacks hit and the Taskmaster saves against all of them does the Taskmaster;
    1. Pick one enemy as reference, fail guts and move 2" to the left where they can gain Partial Cover against A, and is conveniently where they want to go, but they're now nearly in base contact with the trooper B? (Rules argument; Guts Roll is written in the singular enemy and is resolved against only one enemy)
    2. Attempt to apply Guts against all enemies, thus not able to both move at all (any direction would be going towards "the enemy trooper") and thus going prone? (Rules argument; guts rule is meant to be compared against all enemies and All At Once means it's all validated simultaneously)
    3. Prioritise Guts against the enemies who generate no Danger Zone, thus moving backwards where they can gain total cover against A and Partial Cover against D? (Rules argument; Danger Zone movement is written later and thus have lower priority)
    4. Prioritise Guts against the enemies who generate Danger Zones, thus moving forward and to the right where they have no cover against A, B, nor D, but is no longer inside the blast template nor inside Hacking Area? (Rules argument; Danger Zones have a special precedent and priority that's not necessarily obvious, but there)
    5. You missed an option, let me explain...
    If you wish to argue whether a Danger Zone is never properly defined, please do so in a completely different thread. I know that, but I'm really not interested in that conversation.
     
    Ogid likes this.
  2. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    427
    I'd play it as #2 because it's the only option that fulfills all the effects. The trooper tries to move into better cover but is unable to as it would approach an enemy attacker. Only going prone if it can prevent further attacks by doing so.
     
    Ogid and ChoTimberwolf like this.
  3. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    188
    #2 seems the most correct to me.
     
    Ogid, DukeofEarl and Xeurian like this.
  4. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    752
    I'll also say nº2, but you can only go prone if that make your position better (it would break the LoF with any of the attackers for example).

    BTW that taskmaster is a badass!
    This is how I see him a few orders later entering in the armory (after slain them all in a true macho display of course):
    [​IMG]
     
    #4 Ogid, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    Ginrei likes this.
  5. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    930
    no prone is done when you cant improve your cover:
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Guts_Roll
    If a troop survives an Attack, at the end of the Order it must make a Normal WIP Roll. In case of failure or forfeit, the troop must try to exit the danger zone or improve its Cover as much as possible—Total Cover being preferable to Partial Cover—with up to 2 inches of movement. If it can do neither, the troop must go Prone. If none of these cases applies, the troop does nothing.

    the last phrase is for DCD/moto/TAG that can't go prone
     
    Ginrei and Ogid like this.
  6. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    752
    mmm we have an inconsistency then, the fully explained rulles say this:
    In these rulles you can only go prone if that make your position better (note the underlined text has just been removed from that rule).
    I'd lean towards the fully explained rules than the summary.
     
    Sangarn likes this.
  7. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    930
    oh crap another hole ><, ok then sry
    fluffy wise I would prefer he had to go prone but to be honest it doesn't change things a lot
     
    Ginrei likes this.
  8. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    10,756
    No. That's for troopers unable to go Prone.

    See the first two bullet points:
    See also the first example, final paragraph:

    "Angus, in the meantime, is not in Cover at all, and fails his Guts Roll as well, so he must move to get to Cover. However, no Coveris available in a 2-inch radius, forcing Angus to go Prone."
     
  9. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    427
    OMG where are the spoiler tags... I haven't seen #3 yet :P.
     
    Ogid likes this.
  10. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    752
    Good to know that works like that, ty @ijw. However if he must go prone, then the third bullet point is missleading:
    The bolded text is a conditional to apply only when the condition triggers (which contradice the bullet point 1), the case in which he can't go prone is explained in bullet point 4.

    Lol, sorry @Ginrei :P
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    10,756
    The third bullet point is for templates, Hacking Areas etc. It's a separate situation.
     
  12. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    752
    I totally missed that! Then, it would be fine not to go prone if you are hit by a template and cannot improve your cover nor break the LoF, right?
     
    Ginrei likes this.
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,094
    Likes Received:
    9,566
    My vote is for #2, you must apply Guts rules to all attacks. Can't move anywhere without going closer to an enemy, so that badass Taskmaster must go prone.

    (Considering that Taskmasters are the troops who get called in to clean up when a Praxis Black Lab goes all Resident Evil, badass levels must be over 9000 just to be considered for the job!)
     
    Ginrei likes this.