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Code One Less is More

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by anaris, Aug 26, 2020.

?

what do you think of this diet

  1. Yay

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  2. Nay

    5 vote(s)
    62.5%
  3. let's go more Extrem

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. anaris

    anaris Well-Known Member
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    Since the release of Code One Army I get the sense that unit profile are lacking focus and definitive role.
    For Panoceania we have the choice between more than 60 profiles and 20 units.
    Some profile available for Code One are scratching my heads as to why they exists and I can't imagine what new player are thinking when the first thing they see in the Army Builder is a Fusilier Combi Rifle costing the same as a Fusilier Paramedic. Furthermore for a beginner frendly edition of Infinity having so much choice can be confusing and I expected more straighforward choices with Code One:
    • Needing a good Hacker Knight of Justice is the best, a cheap one aim for the Fusilier. (Actually 8 choices)
    • What's an Orco? A basic Heavy Infanterie with state of the art weapon. Not the best but you get some bang for your bucks
    • Need an infiltrated specialist go for the locust, want a infiltrated sniper/shooter go for the Crocman....
    • Fugazi a weaponless unit never heard of it. You need to use those last 0,5 point just go for the palbot
    Code One could go with a diet and Panoc lose 10% of it's profile for a start for the sake of clarity, get rid of:
    • Fusilier HMG => Nice call but I need a heavy weapon for my Fusilier Missile launcher can do the work otherwise aim for the SIerra with an extra 0,5
    • Fusilier Paramedic ==> Get rid of it it's confusing. Hell get rid of Paramedic, we have Spec Ops if we need a specialist.
    • Nisse Paramedic ==> Get out of my lawn I told yahh!!!
    • Nisse Hacker ==> Nisse are mimetisme hunter don't confuse me with that geek thing
    • Vargar Marksman Rifle ==> Mines are touchy things and need expert hands why would you give one to just one profile. We already have CrocMen experts
    • Orco Combi Rifle ==> I said state of the art weapon why would I give Combi Rifle to this HI, short on money use the Boarding Shotgun
    • Orco Combi Rifle Hacker ==> Again get this Combi Rifle out of there plus we already have plenty of hacker profile. If I want a HI Hacker I'll have to use the Knigth Of Justice
    • Knight Of Justice Spitfire Lieutenant ==> Let the lieutenant role to the Orco, or the Aquila Guard If you want top notch Lieutenant
    • Crocman Hacker ==> Mine are serious business don't let the boy play video games
    • Locust Marksman Rifle ==> Basicaly I'll just get rid of some weapon starting with the Marksman Rifle, we lived through N1 and N2 without it.
    • Fugazi ==>...
    So what do you think a hit or a miss? any other profile/weapon you'll get rid for Code One?
     
  2. Capo.Paint

    Capo.Paint Well-Known Member

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    While I see your point, I am not feeling that such a diet would make the game better (not saying it isn't good!). Yes, these paramedics with the same costs as a basic profile are a bit confusing and I don't see the point in the standard combi-Fusilier. But on the other side we have different game-sizes, so you may need different options in each category.
    The point with the well defined roles may be a point for veteran-players. Of course there are odd profiles if you know what Nisse can do quite good. But if you are a newer player, you may want to figure different things out and field the miniatures you already have. And even here I am glad to have some not that well designed profiles to fill a gap in my list.
    And in the end: What could be more boring than fielding the same stuff over and over again, especially as long as there are only four possible enemy-factions?
     
  3. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    And don't forget that Trauma Doc and Machinist have same stats than fusilier combi and cost 1 point...

    All Code One factions have too many redundant units and profiles, IMO is an significant design error.
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    This is an example of why you can't just remove unit options at random - the HMG and the Missile Launcher models come in the same box!
     
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  5. anaris

    anaris Well-Known Member
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    @ijw completely get your points but it's not a Code One box
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    No, but it's the only way to get any non-Combi Rifle Fusiliers and it's a box that CodeOne players are expected to expand into. So the end result of your suggestion would be to either leave players with models they have no rules for, or reduce Fusiliers to having a single Combi Rifle option.

    I do understand the idea behind your suggestion, but I think it's much too restrictive. Don't forget that CodeOne is supposed to be an entire game in it's own right, not just an intro to N4. This means that it needs breadth, and shouldn't funnel players into the same small set of choices. Because in practice you're suggesting removing a lot more than just 10% of options.
     
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  7. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    Interesting conversation - as a new person coming to Infinity for the very first time (but with list building experience in other games) I certainly found some of the options confusing... most notably the lack in cost difference between Paramedic Fusiliers and standard Fusiliers. There are other errors in the list builder so I thought maybe it was actually a mistake, but then I noticed that it likely had to do with the fact that CodeOne builder fractionalizes and rounds unit costs vs N3 equivalent (wherein the Paramedic Fusiliers actually cost slightly more). I recognize that in SOME game modes, killing specialists is an objective, so you may not want to automatically take Paramedics in all situations, but for someone just getting started it does feel like splitting hairs to have so many options when some appear to be clearly better than others the majority of the time.

    Another thing that's been a bit confusing to me is trying to understand the faction play styles in CodeOne factions. Having come from 40k and other games where factions vary significantly, I already find the factions in Infinity to be very subdued. I realize there are differences that experienced players can recognize, but at least with what's available in C1, everything kind-of seems the same from a tactical/play standpoint. In the Kaldstrom box, the Yu Jing come across as a BIT sneakier than PanO because they have a sniper and several units with Camouflage, but it looks like I could get the same setup in PanO if I brought Croc Men and Swiss Guard into the army, so I'm unclear on really what identity or play style the army is supposed to have, or if every army can essentially be tuned to be whatever you want.

    I also picked up the Dronbots for PanO, but I was disappointed when I compared them to the similar drone units in Combined Army, YuJing, and O-12 that it seems like all the drone units in C1 have the EXACT same profiles across all the armies (same stats across the board, same weapons and special equipment load-outs). I had thought maybe the context clue of how the drones function across the various armies would give me an impression of their overall differences, but NOPE - all the same. Is this just a C1 thing? Is the thought, perhaps, that because the unit lists have been reduced overall in C1, they need to be homogenized more so that each faction has access to the same skills and etc.? Do they play significantly differently in N3 (and presumably the upcoming N4)?
     
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  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    The ‘standard four’ Remotes (sometimes known as reactionbots, sensorbots, flashbots, and missilebots), are almost identical across all factions. The main difference is that in some factions most of them get Climbing Plus, and the Combined Army reactionbots have Mimetism. In the full game, the Combined Army reactionbots also have an option to take a Plasma Rifle with it’s terrifying templates.

    Remotes only start diverging once you get outside the standard four. So PanOceanian combat Remotes are very Attack-oriented while Nomad ones are more toolboxy, and Combined Army ones are completely different and often act more like normal Troopers.

    But yes, compared to 40k the different Infinity factions have far more overlap, with a tendency towards some play styles rather than having flat-out different ways of acting on the table. That said, some of the stuff that makes the factions play more differently is things like Warbands, Impersonators etc. that aren’t in CodeOne.
     
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  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The drones play pretty similar in all factions in N3, with the exception of Ariadna and Tohaa who don't get them. Some have climbing plus, and the CombArmy gets Mimetism on their totes remote, but most factions have had the same "Core 4" remotes as far back as N1. Most factions to get unique combat remotes though, like the PanO Bulleteer, or the Aleph Rudras who are very different.

    Infinity does tend to be a game with more subtle inter-faction differences, especially for the generic "Vanilla" factions. Sectorials can be a lot more focused due to restricted troop choices and Fireteam construction, though again Ariadna and Tohaa are an outlier here as well. I tend to see Infinity in somewhat of a middle-ground having less disparate factions than something like 40k or WM/H, but still far less homogenous than most historical or "realistic" wargames.
     
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