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CivEvac, TAG and evacuation device

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Marduck, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    A question that occured during our last tournament.

    A TAG is synch with a civilian in a CivEvac state (with a Xenostech, but that's irrelevant).
    The TAG goes unconcious.
    In this case I'm pretty sure that the civilian is not synch anymore with the TAG since it is in a null state.

    1° On the next order, the pilote goes out. Is he synch with the civilian ? I would say no, since it lost connection with the civilian when the TAG goes unconscious.
    2° If the TAG was not unconscious when the pilot goes out, then is the pilot synch with the civilian ? No idea ...

    3° And now my tricky question : The TAG is an Anaconda. He loses its last STR point. Then the Evacuation Device rule kicks in. It says you have to put the operator next to the TAG replace the TAG with a smoke. Is the operator still synch with the civilian ?

    I can see argument going both ways.
    In favor of still synch : The operator keeps the data tracker state + the operator is still a trooper that provides an order and count the same amount of points + the rule of ED doesn't say the TAG goes unconscious and then you replace it with a smoke. It says when it loose its last STR point. You could infere that the operator is just the TAG with a new profile (like the tohaa with the symbiot armor)

    Against still synch : why make an exception for operator and evacuation device ? It seems unfair + if the TAG loose its last STR point, then it goes unconscious before it blows in smoke.

    What do you say ?
     
  2. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    1) Definitely yes, contoller going unconscious is a cancellation clause for the CivEvac state;
    2) This one is the tricky one here =) I like TAGs in general, so I'd rule in favor of them based on this tangentially-related argument: ITS FAQ states that Datatracker status passes on to the Pilot or Operator of the TAG on dismount or evac, and if the Pilot remounts, the TAG is Datatracker again. To me, that sounds like the RAI here is that TAG and its pilot are considered one entity; thus civilian would become synced to the pilot. Then again, I might be wrong (Datatracker isn't a state, and can't be cancelled); in that case civilian will stay synced to the empty TAG. Either way, the Civvie is still synced, the question is, to whom?
    3) Definitely unsync. ED only kicks in at the end of the Order, and the TAG would go Unconscious as soon as it lost the last STR, i.e. at Effects, automatically breaking CivEvac state. The same would happen with Symbiont Armour - it also activates at the end of the order; only Lo-Tech could maybe pull through - it fires on the same trigger as Unconscious, so might fall both ways...
     
    #2 Gunmage, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The TAG never actually enters a Null state when the ED kicks in (which is why Iggy is awesome in C&P): it goes straight from non-Null to no longer on the table.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/beacons-and-operators.1778/

    But point 2 and 3 are weird anyway. We know that a Seraph is synced with its Auxbot but the Seraph's CrabBot is not. The reason for this is because the Seraph is the Controller (it has the Auxbot on its profile) whereas the CrabBot is not the Controller (it does not have the Auxbot on its profile). I don't know what this means for Civevac though: whether the Controller is the Trooper (irrespective of profile) or the figure that Synced the Civvie (which has implications for Su Jian).
     
    #3 inane.imp, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ok now: what happens if pilot volunterly dismounts the TAG ? Is the pilot still sync'ed with a Civilian ? (he never went to null state)
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    NFI. But my gut is yes. I have a sneaking suspicion that specific question has already been asked though... (Not that I can find it)
     
    #5 inane.imp, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think this was asked and the answer was yes, because its the same trooper changing profiles ala dismount motorcycle or symbiont active –> inactive
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Do you recall if the answer took into account Remote Pilots? This would be very relevant to the Seraph's Auxbot.
     
  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Remote pilot have a problem being REMs thus making civilians syn'c null.
     
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  9. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    I don't know about that. Becoming a REM (yeah, not a very often encountered situation) is not on the CivEvac state cancellation clauses list. For a somewhat similar example, we know becoming Impetuous doesn't break sync - you just cannot declare Synchronize Civilian to re-establish it if you lose it for some other reason; why would it break on activation of Remote Pilot?
     
  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Seraph's Auxbot is distinct. The trooper that has the Auxbot on their profile is the controller. The Seraph's crabbot lacks 'Auxbot' on the profile. This doesn't hold for Controllers that don't have the G-Sync'd Troopers on their profile, which is the case with CIVEVAC.

    It probably provides a degree of precedence though.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The Datatracker ruling for TAGs has me doubting TAG pilots interaction with a few things, to be honest.
     
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