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CC Combat: sometimes unbalanced?

Discussion in 'Rules suggestions' started by Romansky, Apr 15, 2022.

  1. Romansky

    Romansky Shadowrunner

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    hej forum-fellows,

    im still a noob but on some games it seemed a bit weird when we was experiencing close combat and some standard to weak models where killing expensive special ones... whats your experience?

    I found this old(?) article:
    https://lonelyartichoke.wordpress.c...to-fix-close-combat-in-1-sentence/#more-24124

    as i understand the the main idea is that beeing in base contact you have to use the cc attribute instead of PH to fix weird cc-experince.

    "...
    When declaring a Dodge or Disengage roll, the model must use the CC attribute, instead of the PH attribute.


    This simple rule has far-reaching changes on how everything plays. TAGs, Ninjas, mid-level HI and MI, everything. It massively pumped up the value of MSV on close and mid-range weapons, and massively (if not utterly) dumped on the ability of a 1-point Chain Rifle or Nanopulser to end a 40+ point CC specialist. Any trooper with high CC and any amount of Kinematika will radiate threat in the size of a small Circular Template. ..."

    what like to hear your opinion.
     
  2. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I’m not sure how that fix follows from your initial complaint; if a model is dodging, then they’re not killing their opponent in CC.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Kitsune and Teutons dodge into CC while critting on 15+s... Things get kinda weird and fucky and stopping stuff from hitting CC can get pretty difficult and Dodge becomes a ludicrously strong ARO for Mimetic CC units. DTWs actually become literally useless in this case, you can't fail dodge rolls because they're all rolling on 20+ CC

    Probably not a good change overall. Wanna stop Harvey Bearstein? He contested shots throwing smoke on 19s before. Now he contests AROs trying to stop him by dodging while critting on 16+ and gets the dodge movement to get closer.
     
  4. Urist

    Urist Well-Known Member

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    If you are struggling to make CC work, here are some tips. Judging by the mention of Ninjas, I'm guessing you are your friend are playing JSA.
    • Try to cover your approach with smoke grenades. If they can't see you, they can't shoot you. Hidden Deployment and Parachutist also opens good ways to approach from unexpected angles.
    • Your Ninjas/Oniwaban have Stealth (like a lot of melee units), which let's them move and not provoke dodge AROs if they aren't in LoF, even if you are in their zone of control. Get behind them and shoot or stab them in the back. Be careful around core fireteams.
    • Melee is usually a secondary tool in lists, like plan B or C, and don't be afraid of melee units dying after they do their job. If my Nahab goes on a killing spree that's my opponent's mistake, if they kill 1 or 2 key units before they explode that's good for me. I try to trade evenly or take out something to disable that side of the board.
    Personally, I wouldn't like the CC to dodge if in BtB change. Like the other person said, it would really hurt DTWs like shotguns. You walk your Ninja into Base-to-base, I use ARO shotgun template to force you to dodge instead of stabbing me, suddenly they are dodging on 23 (auto-pass) instead of 12s. It removes the risk of running straight at a shotgun or Flamethrower. Many chain rifle warbands won't care, they are cheap enough to be disposable like Ghazi or have the CC stats to potentially slap back like Daturazi. What it's really going to hurt are more expensive DTW carriers, like Jujaks, Hakims, Jannisaries, and Suryats.
     
    #4 Urist, Apr 16, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
    Abrilete, Romansky and Brokenwolf like this.
  5. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    Moved to a more relevant subthread, also please try to not creatively insert alternative forms of the tired bear joke.
     
    chromedog and Romansky like this.
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