Hi there! I recently played a game where I had a S2 model lying prone behind an unconcious Pangguling so as not to provoke ARO from a Bulleteer in Suppressive Fire. At one point I wanted to move from behind the Pangguling to a point on the table that was out of LoF from the Bulleteer and figured out that if I could move 4" I would be in the clear. My question(s) is this: Can I use Cautious Move to cancel my Prone state? From the wiki: A Prone trooper may automatically cancel this state by declaring the Short Movement Skill Move. The player must announce he is cancelling the Prone state when declaring the Short Skill Move. By doing so, the state is cancelled at no cost and the trooper can carry out its Move using its regular MOV and S values. Cautious Move is not the Short Movement Skill Move. So am I forced to stay in Prone state? In which case, I would fail the Cautious Move because I can only move 2" because I am prone and therefore not reach total cover, right?
Cautious Movement: Cautious Movement must follow the General Movement rules as well as the Moving and measuring sidebar, both of which are explained in the Move Common Skill rules. General Movement Rules: By declaring Move, a trooper may go Prone or revert back to the Normal standing state at the start of his Movement at no cost. Remember that troopers have reduced mobility while Prone. I see no reason why you should be forced to stay prone.
By the same logic, would I be able to start in Prone and use Cautious Move to end up more than 2” away without triggering an ARO?
By the same logic, would I be able to start in Prone and use Cautious Move to end up more than 2” away without triggering an ARO?
Strictly as written, no you can't change Prone state as part of a Cautious Movement skill - as you quoted in the rules, it's not the Move Short Movement Skill. That said, pretty well everyone plays that you can change Prone as part of any movement, not just as part of the named Move skill.
Just like this is also valid: I've got a Prone valiant Shaasvastii Seed Soldier next to a gap. I spend an order to activate the brave servant of the greater good, and it declares long skill Jump to cross the gap, cancelling Prone to do so. It's effectively "I get to cancel Prone before the Move skill because I'm declaring a Move skill." because of the General Movement Rules. So the point in Prone is misleading because it's incomplete--it describes the most common way to cancel Prone, but it's not exhaustive. But that's the way a lot of the Infinity rules are written.
That's a really misleading way of describing the situation. According to the rules in the Dodge skill, you don't get to use Dodge unless you have line of sight to the attacker. According to various other rules, you get to declare Dodge and a negative modifier in various other situations. The result is that you get to use Dodge when the various rules say you do, in addition to when the Dodge rules say. It's the same situation with cancelling Prone. The cancellation clause for Prone says one thing. The General Movement Rules say something more expansive. Both are true because the cancellation clauses for states aren't exhaustive.
Huh? Nobody but you is talking about Dodge, and nothing in the General Movement Rules contradicts or expands on the activation and cancellation clauses for Prone. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/General_Movement_Rules By declaring Move, a trooper may go Prone or revert back to the Normal standing state at the start of his Movement at no cost. Remember that troopers have reduced mobility while Prone. My bold. It doesn't say 'By declaring any movement', it says 'By declaring Move', aka the specific named Short Movement Skill. This is the same restriction as listed in the Prone state - not movement, but Move. Cautious Movement is not Move. Jump is not Move. Like I said, pretty well everyone plays it that you can activate/cancel Prone as part of any movement, but that's not what the rules say.
I’m glad I’m not the only one seeing the discrepancy, but I’m also sad that this is another part of the rules that makes no sense RAW compared to what people usually do
If that's worth anything, I've asked a similiar question and a bunch of related ones a while ago and got a link from @solkan to the post from Palanka on the old forums which basically stated that changing to/from prone state is avilable with any movement (of course you can't go prone and jump while prone because of jump rules etc.) https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/various-move-questions.26245/ My questions and the link I got about those - http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...ment-orders-cautious-movement/#comment-669423
Hm. To me this seems pretty obvious?!? Well, Cautious Movement might not be Move, but the rules state that I should follow the rules that are listed under the Move skill rules: So let's just do that:
This is an interesting discussion, but to address the original situation a moment, wouldn't the S2 tript be seen when they stood up (at the start of their movement) anyway, being taller than the Pangguling?
@daszul which outcome are you arguing for? Move says to reference the General Movement Rules, which say that you can cancel Prone when declaring Move.
It would be seen, but it doesn't matter, as standing up is part of the Cautious Movement: Without the movement action, you won't be able to stand up from prone, so it is part of that action. So as long as you started and ended that movement out of line of sight, you did not generate an ARO by it. @ijw - you argued that the general movement rules only state that you can cancel the prone state with a Move action, not with any movement action. To this i wanted to reply that the cautious movement rules state that you have to follow the rules for the move action, so that the fact that the general movement rules only talk about 'Move' does not mean that it does not apply to cautious movement.
So if we read the rule correctly we should not be able to get prone after a "dodge" or a failed "guts roll" ? That would change our habits a lot and catch everybody off guard ... hope there won't be an FAQ ruling this way.
Dodge movement in Reactive turn is the Move skill (or any other short-movement skill, such as Super Jump, that the trooper is capable of)
Ho you are right. And it specifically says you can go prone if you fail your gut roll. But can you fail your gut roll to move up to 2 inches and get prone ?
If it would improve your cover, yes. Seems like this discussion was sufficiently solved by the link @Erbent posted?
Ah! I believe this is a mis-reading on your part. Cautious Movement does not say that it follows the rules for the Move Skill, but that it follows the General Movement Rules - which in the book/PDF are located next to the Move Skill.
