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Can you go Prone during a Dodge or Cautious Move?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by inane.imp, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    From the Unsolved questions thread:

    We know this isn't exhaustive because Guts also interacts with Prone. Why do you recommend playing this as the strictest RAW, it's different to how it's generally played?

    Your previous position was that allowing Prone as part of Dodge and Cautious Moves was the norm.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/cancelling-of-prone-state-by-cautious-move.26545/#post-198099

    Edit: after reading that thread I see this discussion is really just a continuation of the old one.

    @Arkhos there seems to be an 'unsolved question' (which increasingly means 'everyone has played it differently to RAW since the start of N3, can CB please formalise that):

    Can you go Prone as part of a Cautious Move or Dodge?

    A. No. You can only change a troopers state to or from Prone as part of the Short Movement Skill Move.

    B. Yes. You can change to or from the Prone state whenever declaring a skill or ARO that uses the General Movement Rules.
     
    #1 inane.imp, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    So I guess this would include Climb and Jump as well,
    as those too have to follow the General Movement Rules?
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It's why I wrote the answer the way I did.

    It also makes it relatively clear you can go Un-Prone as part of a Guts if doing so would allow you to improve your cover. (Prone on one side of a barrier, Guts over the barrier so that you're standing with partial cover).
     
  4. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    But that definition would also include Dodge and Engage, are those 2 also intended to work like that?
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I agree that it's "relatively clear" that you can cancel Prone as part of Guts, I'd say it's relatively clear that Prone is strictly the state you go to when failing Guts and that you stay that way if you already are Prone because you're desperately afraid, but keep in mind that Dodge uses a Short Movement Skill available to your unit so you can declare Dodge(Move) in order to cancel Prone when Dodging.
     
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  6. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    I asked this question here a while ago, basically by RAW it is arguable that changing from/to prone state is not possible during skills that are not Short movement skill Move, guts rolls and maybe something else, but there was an answer from Palanka on the old forums that basically was that any skill that uses general movement rules can be used to change to/from prone state at the start of it.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/various-move-questions.26245/#post-190705
     
    BLOODGOD and inane.imp like this.
  7. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    In this case it would be better if they just name the skills in a FAQ.
     
  8. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    The question regarding cancelling prone as a part of cautious move/jump/climb was already part of the unsolved question list. I will edit it to include "going prone" and add dodge
     
  9. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I'm sorry but now I'm starting to lose my shit here. WHAT is the actual reason for not being able to go prone with Dodge? It flat out states after a successful Dodge (in ARO phase) that you're allowed to perform a short movement skill that doesn't require a roll, with Move being the literal first example of this. How on earth can you then draw the conclussion that you can't go prone then? If not, then by that logic you're not allowed to declare Prone when using the Move short skill, at all.
     
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  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I'm still not sure if the original post is asking me for a reply or not. :-(

    In any case:

    A reactive Dodge explicitly invokes the Move Short Movement Skill, and therefore allows you to activate or cancel Prone state:
    • In Reactive Turn only, a successful Dodge allows the user to Move—or use another Short Movement Skill that doesn't require a Roll—up to 2 inches.
    Cautious Movement does not involve the Move Short Movement Skill, so does not allow you to activate or cancel Prone state.

    As per the published rules and FAQs, the answer is:
    C. You can go Prone as part of a reactive Dodge because it allows you to use the Move Short Movement Skill. You cannot go Prone as part of a Cautious Movement.
     
  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Hmm, sorry for a chain question; If a link team declares dodge as their cohesive ARO, does that enable proned link member (who did not had sight to attacker) dodging to cancel their prone status?
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Each Fireteam member checks for AROs individually. The 'cohesive ARO' just means that those Fireteam members that get an ARO must declare the same ARO (or someone will end up out of the Fireteam) - it doesn't mean that everyone gets to react even if they didn't get an ARO!
     
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  13. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    That you are allowed to go prone with ARO dodge is covered by the rules, yes.
    The second part is not so clear, please keep these cases separated.

    And the FAQs say nothing about either,
    we are asking for them to cover this topic.
    So what we discuss here is whether RAW really matches RAI.
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Rules-wise it is clear, which is why I said 'as per the published rules and FAQs'. Cautious Movement is not the Move Short Movement Skill.
     
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  15. siri

    siri Active Member

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    Sorry to bother again.

    So when I dodge, if I have super jump, since jump is a short movement skill for this trooper, I can jump out of a roof falling in to the ground ? Right ?
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yes indeed.
     
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