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Can Martial Arts, NBW and Berserk be used together?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Icchan, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    As the title says, if the active trooper declares the use of Berserk and is measured to be in range, does it get to use NBW and Martial Arts skills in the same activation?
    Martial Arts opponent MODs wouldn't do anything because they're MODs for f2f rolls, but the buff to it's own skill and damage could apply.

    The reason I'm asking because CC Special Skills normally can't be used unless the user is already in silhouette contact and Berserk specifically says it can be used out of silhouette contact, unless you're somehow able to retroactively apply MA and NBW skills after the Berserk movement?
     
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  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    The Requirements of those skills are checked at Step 6, at which point you are in the Engaged State and are S2S.

    Order Expenditure Sequence:
    "6. Resolution: Check that the declared Skills, Special Skills, and pieces of Equipment meet their respective Requirements..."

    Martial Arts:
    "Requirements
    In the Active or Reactive Turn, the Trooper must reach or be in Silhouette contact with the target and declare a CC Attack."
     
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  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    If Berserk didn't say that, you wouldn't be able to use it at all!
     
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  4. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't the part that was confusing me, it's fairly obvious. The confusing part was whether or not you could declare a combination of skills where one requires silhouette contact and the other doesn't, ie. be in two states at once.
     
  5. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    If Andromeda can use Guard and MA together I don't see why this wouldn't work either.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Ah, I think I see the issue.

    Berserk is an actual action that (hopefully) moves you into Silhouette contact. MA and NBW are Automatic Skills rather than Short Skills/Entire Order Skills declared as part of your Order, so they happen automatically if you fulfil their Requirements.
     
  7. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    another question in this regard:

    In N3 natural born warrior used to be the only way to prevent berserk attacks to be 2 normal rolls by negating the use of the berserk skill. This way the NBW unit stood a chance of surviving against attackers like taigha creatures.

    In N4 this seems gone, right? Under berserk in the wiki it states that with NBW

    The attacker cannot use the Martial Arts CC Special Skill against the user.
    The link basically leads to the table with the different bonuses MA levels provide.

    So there is no way to survive a berserk attack other than by tanking the hit?
     
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Or by attacking the berserker before they attack you, Berserk only works in the Active Turn and can't be used when already Engaged.
     
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  9. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Berserk also needs LoF, so if they move into position to berserk you, you get at least one gunfight with them before they can berserk. You can also set up so that they have to face your other ARO pieces when they move to establish LoF to their victim.

    They can't cover their advance with smoke the way CC units usually do, unless they have MSV, since the smoke will break their LoF and prevent the bersek.
     
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  10. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    well, that of course is always the best :blush:

    unfortunately they tend to hide and use sneaky tricks...
     
  11. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    berserk is a lot more common nowadays it seems and with the new way dodge works they have a possibility to get into berserk charge distance without the hassle of aros, at least sometimes
     
  12. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    not quite, now that the active player can declare his 2nd short skill when around the corner as dodge to try and dodge into line of sight. if he can succeed on that roll, at no point can you shoot him when he cannot declare berserk.
     
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  13. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    That's true, and a good point.
     
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