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Can a camouflaged state be cancelled to prevent delay?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Tanan, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Tanan

    Tanan Member

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    Q1: A camouflaged trooper receives an order. Can it remove the camouflaged state before declaring Move as a 1st skill?

    Q2: A camouflaged trooper receives an order. The 1st declared skill is Move. Can it remove the camouflaged state after declaring Move as a 2nd skill?

    After reading Camouflaged cancellation clauses, I think these aren’t legal actions.

    These cases are relevant in camo vs camo and LoF blocking situations.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    They are not legal actions, as per the FAQ:


    N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.4, Sep 2018
    Q: Can you choose to cancel game states that are the result of an optional Skill? For example Camouflaged state or an IMP state.
    A: No, unless the Cancellation bullet points for the game state say that you can cancel the state voluntarily.
     
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  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Colbrook has answered correctly above. However as a tactical note, if your camo marker is already in the appropriate position to declare your subsequent short skill, you can legally declare discover (even against a visible enemy model not in a marker state) as your first short skill to break camo early and avoid the enemy delaying, while retaining the benefit of surprise.
     
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  4. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Would't Dodge be better, as it cancels the Camo State as well but might help to prevent potential damage?
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    If you dodge, you cannot Surprise Shot. The idea is to declare something that breaks Marker state without losing options (you can declare Dodge as the second part of the order if needed, too).

    Also, if you get glued as a marker thanks to the Riotstoppers, per de FAQ it's clear you won't lose marker state, so using Discover (or Reset, but that one is not nearly as universally usable) lets you get out of Marker state and be "repaired" out of IMM2.

    Remember, you can Discover friendly troops (because otherwise you would not be able to declare Discover against IMPersonators).
     
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  6. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    That. Discover (on anyone in LoF) is the only action that let you break marker state on your first action while still being able to use BS Attack/Hacking (with appropriate modifer) on the second one
     
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  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    you cannot break camo state prior to shot and apply surprise shot in the same order. One or the other. If you want to reveal first without giving the enemy the option to delay its aro, you need to be in position and declare discover or dodge before the shot.

    But even when dodge is a movement short skill, I am not sure how it will work combined with another FtF roll skill in the same order
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    Yes you can. Surprise Shot only requires you to be in a marker state at the start of the Order. Declaring Discover as your first Skill of the Order will prevent delayed AROs but still let the trooper use Surprise Shot.

    Dodge is never a Short Movement Skill. In ARO it allows you to use a Short Movement Skill.
     
  9. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    That is a problem with the label "move" it has. I don't know why is there then, but you are right. Then then only way is to it is declaring discover
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Having the Move label makes it a movement. Saying Short Movement Skill at the top right of the box makes it a Short Movement Skill. Please see http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Skills.
     
  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    yes, but is just another one of those redundancies that create confusion. You can take out the lavel movement and it would still work as intended.
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    No it wouldn't. It has to have that label because of the ability to move in ARO.
     
  13. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    well, this is becoming a bit absurd. Just think of "what if" there was not this label? this is not in the label list, and its implications are fully explained in the skill its used (in this case is dodge). It is superfluous and creates confusion (just to see that, look how in this same thread some people thought that dodge+shot was a valid order).
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    It's not absurd. A Skill that can involve moving has to have the Movement label. Otherwise there would be no point in having the label on any Skill.
     
  15. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    exactly, that's my point: that label is not needed in any Skill, but creates confunsion. The movement skills are by default movement so they don't need it, and the short skills that allow to move, have explained how to do that movement, so again, is not needed.
     
  16. Tanan

    Tanan Member

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    Q3: Can you discover your own camouflaged models? If yes, antipode pack got a lot better at LoF blocking.
     
  17. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    you can use discover against friendly units, but why would that be better for LoF blocking?
     
  18. Tanan

    Tanan Member

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    I previously thought that you couldn’t discover your own models. Antipodes have a big silhouette, which is great for LoF blocking. Unfortunately a smart opponent can prevent the LoF blocking by not declaring discover because camo-markers don’t block LoF.

    Until now. Ariadna can discover the friendly antipodes and create a wall of LoF block without any risk.
     
  19. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    you don't need discover, make the antipodas dodge would reveal them, even if you miss the roll (you can miss discover)
     
  20. Tanan

    Tanan Member

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    Dodge is risky because antipodes are in enemy LoF and enemy has chosen delay ARO.

    Discover isn’t risky because discoverers don’t need to be in enemy LoF. They only need LoF to the antipode.