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C1 and beyond Dodge

Discussion in 'Rules' started by wuji, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Forgive if this has already been given a thread, I searched but only saw threads for stacking mods.

    For Kinematica or Dodge + 1" or 2", this effectively makes CC experts able to enter CC from out of line of fire by using Dodge to move around a corner into base to base. Dodge says it does not trigger an ARO. Wouldn't this also conflict with the rules saying if you enter base to base contact and do anything other than a movement skill that it triggers an ARO...

    Depending one which rule superceded the other, CC troops could get better.

    But does anyone know which rule is the superceeding rule?
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The Dodge movement doesn't occur until after all skills and AROs have been declared, so it cannot provoke any further AROs because it is too late in the Order Expenditure Sequence.

    Bear in mind however that if a trooper is close enough to Dodge into CC they will be in the Reactive trooper's ZoC, and therefore have already granted an ARO, which can of course be to Dodge away (at -3 if no LoF).
     
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Bear in mind that in N3 a CC trooper can move out of LoF in an enemy's ZoC to trigger a change facing ARO, then simply use their second move to walk into CC unopposed. N4 actually makes it easier to avoid an active CC model by letting you Dodge instead.
     
  4. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Do either of you know what Stealth is gonna be like in N4 I didnt see anything for it in C1. But, maybe it doesnt matter because using stealth while moving in the first half of the order isnt gonna make the declaration of dodge stealthy. It would just Grant an ARO right? Oooorrr is there something else I haven't read where if you do have stealth, something like Dodge is still considered to be under the I fluence of stealth?
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Stealth isn't in C1 at all. If it remains as it was in N3 then Declaring Dodge should still break Stealth and provoke an ARO.

    It's also probably worth pointing out that Dodge vs Dodge is normal rolls, and if both troopers succeed then the Active player moves first. So the Reactive trooper always has at least a PH-3 chance of avoiding the CC.
     
  6. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    That much I've gathered.

    So nothing on stealth yet.

    Terribly curious who will get the most benefit.
     
  7. Catspaw

    Catspaw Well-Known Member

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    Well, so far JSA is getting pretty much trucked by these changes. I am fervently hoping that stealth still exists in some way, shape, or form.
     
  8. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Maybe I'm misreading you, but doesn't 'trucked' have negative connotations?
     
  9. Hisey

    Hisey Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm also confused. Everything we've heard about C1/N4 has been making me want to pull my JSA off the shelf for the first time in years.
     
  10. Catspaw

    Catspaw Well-Known Member

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    'Trucked' is probably the wrong way of putting it, but from the bits and pieces I'm gathering I'm not sure I see JSA in a better spot than they were in N3. The changes to dodge and the 15 order limit are boons, but as in C1 it looks as though it's going to be even more difficult to utilize CC effectively. Not having a stealth mechanic currently is a huge part of that, but stuff like the changes to Martial Arts as well (moving +1B to MA5 hurts A LOT, and MA3-4 is useless for monofilament users). JSA is reliant on smoke, which is getting a nerf with the changes to MSV1. Hacking is getting a significant buff, which will likely hurt far more than it helps, since the sectorial has a large number of hackable units and fairly mediocre hacking support. Sixth Sense has been rolled into one skill, which hurts TO Camo units. BSG changes will be detrimental to the Oniwaban, etc. I'm probably passing judgement too early, but little things here and there are adding up. I'm hoping many of these issues will be addressed with new rules and/or point cost changes.
     
  11. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Yes.
     
  12. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Just to note, Stealth exists in N4.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    There’s a tiny number of units in N3 that have Sixth Sense L1, so that’s not going to make much difference.

    For BSGs, take another look at Surprise Attack in CodeOne (and therefore N4). The -3 MOD applies to targets, not to Face to Face Rolls. An Oniwaban using a DTW from Cover is going to be inflicting -12BS to anyone under the Template, and -3 if they try to Dodge. -6 if they don’t have LoF because there’s someone in front of them.

    Enemy templates are still going to be a problem, obviously. :-(
     
  14. FlipOwl

    FlipOwl Well-Known Member

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    The Oniwaban will just tank them like the bosses they are!
     
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