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Beginner interested in PanO but I need some help

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Mangekyo, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Mangekyo

    Mangekyo New Member

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    Hello!

    I'm interested in starting a PanOceania and probably a Yu Jing army as well but I had some questions.


    I've been told that it doesn't really matter what units I pick, just go with looks and I'll be fine but I've also been told that there are definitely units who are better at hacking/sniping etc. than other units. Of course cost is a factor as well. I created a list of my favorite looking characters and I wanted to know if they look good/bad to you. I think I'll get a 300 point army (perhaps bigger?) at some point. Anyway, what do you think of these units?



    -Knights Hospitaller
    -PanOceanian Black Friars
    -Knight of the Holy Sepulchre
    -Military Order Father-Knight
    -Knights of Santiago
    -Hexas
    -Knights of Montiesa
    -Aquila Guard
    -Teutonic Knights
    -Magister knights
    -Crusader Brethren
    -Jeanne d´Arc
    -Order Sergeants
    -Dragões
    -Shock Army of Acontecimento
    -Father Officer Gabriele
    -Orc Troops
    - Nisses unit

    The top 5 or so I want very much. Is the Knight of the Holy Sepulchre good or meh? Is Hexas still good? Does it matter which Nisses I get? I hear people say ORC troops aren't good in MO (what's mo?) but decent in vanilla? What is the difference?

    Also what does TAG stand for, are they the really tall units? Also what's Li MG HG? Light medium and heavy units? I'd like to learn more about this stuff :)

    Thank you very much I appreciate it!
     
  2. Mangekyo

    Mangekyo New Member

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    Also what are sectorials? Are they different ranks of troops within a faction?
     
  3. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    With these minis if you have fusiliers or dronebots, you'll have a good range of miniatures to play in generic.

    IMO the top 5 in your list are: Nisses, Jeanne, Hexa, Hospitallers and Gabriele.

    A sectoral has a lower rank of troops AND special rules like Fireteams (fireteams are explained in Human Sphere book). If you like knights, as it seems, you'll take a look at military orders in the army.
     
    #3 Dyne, Feb 12, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  4. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    They are separate armies for the same faction, with more limited (and thematically focused) choice of units in comparison with "vanilla faction", but increased AVA on some of those units and ability to form so-called Fireteams (aka link teams). Sometimes they also include some units that typically belong to other factions (like Aleph units in Panoceania's sectorial army called "Shock Army of Acontecimento") or some neutrals.

    Check out what can be found in different sectorials here: https://army.infinitythegame.com/
    Click on Faction's emblem and you'll see all army variations available to it.

    Tactical Armored Gear.
    They are quite tall, but depends on what you compare them to.

    Here's the list of Silhouette sizes, width x heigth:

    S1 - 25x25mm
    S2 - 25x40mm
    S3 - 40x32mm
    S4 - 55x32mm
    S5 - 40x45mm
    S6 - 40x55mm
    S7 - 55x67mm
    S8 - 70x70mm

    TAGs are typically S6 (light TAGs, mostly) to S8 (the one and the only Maghariba Guard).

    Military Orders. One of the sectorials of Panoceania.
    The difference with vanilla is the context. With wide access to all faction units in Vanilla, competition for some role in your army will be more fierce. On the other hand, ability to form fireteams in sectorial makes some units much better in some ways.

    I think you can find answers to some of these questions by reading "tacticas" - guides on certain armies posted as stickied threads in this forum.
     
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  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Do you want to play vanilla or sectorial ?

    Vanilla:
    Its the "PanO": basicly you can mix/match practicly ALL PanO units (so for example you can have a list with knights and Hexa) but you cannot take that many of them (for example in Vanilla you can have only 1 Hexa, while in sectorial army NCA you can have 3).

    Sectorial:
    This is an army of a faction (in this case special army of PanO), which is limited when it comes to a number of different troopers you can take but you can take more of what you are allowed (so for example, in Military Orders (MO) sectorial army you can take up to 4 Hospitaller Knights).

    There are following sectorial armies in PanO:
    Shock Army of Acontacimento:
    Dragoes
    Regulars
    ORCs
    Military Orders:
    All the knights ;)
    Black Friar
    Order Sergeants
    Joan
    Neoterra Capitaline Army:
    Aquila Guard
    Hexa
    ORCs
    Varuna (this is upcoming sectorial, should be relasesed this year).


    Regarding ORCs: they are rather "poor" choice for their points, and they have some particular bad profiles (AHD). If you want to play Vanilla then you will probably never take them (just take Hospitaller, it's cheaper&better). This hopefully will change as Varuna sectorial is said to have some special "edition" ORCs (plus ORC character).
     
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  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Hi, Mangekyo, welcome to forums and PanO :)

    Barrogh and eciu summed it up nicely. I'd also say that first thing to do is to decide if you want to play vanilla army, or sectorial. Both approaches have their pros and cons. Vanilla factions are more flexible and allow you to skip some advanced rules (fireteams) at first, but it's more difficult to keep focused with your purchases and playstyle. Sectorials are more limited and you have to read on the fireteams fast, but with more limited scope it's easy to keep on track.

    Regardless of your choice best way to start is to start small - build a 100-150 pts list, play a few training games changing the list often, add another 50 pts when you'll feel confident and play some more, repeat the process until getting to 300 pts. This will allow you to learn the faction's ins and outs, as well as give you a solid grasp on the rules.

    Also don't get too attached to a particular list. They're very flexible in Infinity, I can't remember playing with the same list more than 2-3 times.

    You're right, LI/MI/HI stand for Light/Medium/Heavy Infantry. There's a lot of abbreviations flying around on forums, you'll get used to it ;)
     
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  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'm of the opinion that "just go by looks" is a lazy generalization. There are several miniatures from several armies that lend themselves well as proxies for a second model of a unit with only one sculpt, to begin with, and different factions have different mechanics and focuses, which are "light" in Vanilla (also called "generic") but very noticeable if we go to Sectorials.

    PanO has the Shtick of being the best TAG faction (only the "evil Alien" faction of the Combined Army has equal numbers, with other factions having one to three) with the best shooters, but with a slight disadvantage when playing Gimkana games (go there, push that button, etc...).
    The sectorials are: Military Orders (MO), which can be considered as "melee armored warriors with some support here and there", excelling on low numbers of elite troops, or (ab)using Joan of Arc's leadership to turn any unit into a regular one (so, when Mercenaries are allowed she can really make a lot of spam). Emblematic units are the Hospitalers+Joan or Hospitalers + Magisters, using the Order's Sargeants to cover "intelligence" jobs. Also the Hospitaler is the best medic in PanO. Their TAG is a "light" unit.
    Neoterra are the "rich kids", with lots of toys. They usually deploy the cheapest Fusilier unit, using the Aquila and Swiss guard HI troops as killing machines, sometimes using TAGs aswell, having access to two good TAGs. They also love to deploy Auxilias, since they are cheap troops able to secure objectives and are escorted by an Auxbot.
    Acontecimiento are the jungle veterans, with two good TAGs and solid units in the shape of the Regulars and the favorite Bag-Mahri. They also have access to some of Aleph's toys, changing their game a lot from what usually PanO is.

    Yu Jing is more mixed, because it has 2 sectorials with heavy differences between them. First, JSA (the japanese army) is somewhat similar to MO, they are mostly heavy troops who want to go melee. Sadly, they are badly equipped to reach that position unless using characters (AVA 1 special troops with their own name) and there is very little variation in their team composition, with most lists having little difference between them, and little use for most troops with Generic (essentially, only the Ninjas and maybe Oniwaban). The usual lineup is Neko Oyama with 2 members of each of the other HI troops. Consider it's the lineup with cheapest Chain of Command troop... (the "if the boss dies, I will give the orders now" troop).
    Imperial Service (ISS) is a political police with tons of mix and match lineups, and several points of synergy with Generic: Sun Tze, Hsien, Su Jian, Kuangshi... plus some Aleph's toys (getting one of the best healing troops of the game and some very obnoxious remotes). They have good HI lineup, and are mostly shooty with some good melee options (one ninja is allowed!).

    In general, if you want heavily armored infantry in groups, I suggest Imperial Secret Service, Military Orders and Japanese Service Army in that order from easier to harder.
    Having a look at each of the forums and tactica will be a good idea, if you have a playstyle you favor (for example, Nomads are "the combo" army, Morat are the "Assault like mad", JSA are the "Close and kill", Aleph is all about Controlling the situation, while its Greeks from the Steel Phalanx are Fragile Speedsters able to CC and take a hit...).
     
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  8. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
    Warcor

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    If you like the game and PanO: Get them all! They need reinforcements! ;)

    It is never a bad decision to go "for a look". But I would advice you to play some beginner matches with the PanO starter and then build a larger army with every match.
     
  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    It's helpful too to know a bit about your community too.

    Is there a thriving community, where players meeting regularly for tournaments, leagues or other forms of group play?

    Or

    Is it just you and a friend (or small group of friends) that are all learning the game together?

    Is there a teacher or organizer who is available to help you learn the game in person, or are you going to be learning completely on your own?

    Have you played any other tabletop wargames?
     
  10. Mangekyo

    Mangekyo New Member

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    Wow you guys gave me a lot of info to sink into. I'll have to read through again to grasp it all because it feels a little overwhelming.

    I like vanilla for the reason of mixing any unit in a faction, but I like the appeal of MOs because it seems more tactical. I'm just worried that if I go the knight route I won't be able to have a sniper with them. I really want a game with sniping being a big factor.


    I haven't played any miniatures games at all. I didn't find warhammer appealing so I avoided them. I love the minis in this game. I was actually looking for a board game that have cybernetic ninjas and I guess it's disheartening to find out the Ninjas for Yu Jing are the weakest in the faction. Oniwaban is probably my favorite looking unit. But no I don't have a community by me and it'd probably just be some friends who'd I'd have to teach the game to (and learn it myself). I don't know how I feel about spending lots of $$$ buying airbrushes etc. only to play the game with just a couple of friends :/ but this game looks really appealing. I love war/combat games and like I said the theme and design is really up my alley.

    Also, what's the purpose in a link team? Does it boost stats? Is the link broken if one unit dies?
     
  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Basically: they allow you to move up to 5 models at once and/or fully use one of them at a price of 1 order. They boost Burst (even in reactive turn!; this applies to 3+ man teams), give everyone Sixth Sense rule (4 man) and improve BS (or equivalent for some other ranged attacks; 5 man team).

    They break if one particular model (Leader) gets messed badly, but that model can be re-appointed every time you activate the link. The only restriction is that if you shoot in your Active turn, it will be that model which will do the shooting, so you often have reasons to expose it.

    It will also start breaking if models wander from Leader, so you have to keep tight formation, which is a downside in itself.

    Link teams are cool because its bonuses make even basic infantry into capable fighters while they still remain order generators for your army. Also because you can move everything (heavy weapon, specialists, support pieces) with a single order. Downsides are that they are a bit unwieldy and still vulnerable to many things that threaten particular pieces they are made of (and templates).

    Take a look at rules yourself: http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Infinity_Fireteams

    I mean, in Military Orders for everything that knights don't cut, you have these and those bad boys and girls.

    If you mean JSA, I wouldn't say they are as bad as to make the point too important. They have other more pressing issues than being non-competitive IMO. But I'm not really an authority here, so...

    Ninjas themselves, while being looked down on by YJ players, are a decent tool with a purpose nevertheless. And Oniwaban varieties definitely see enough table time.
     
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  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    If it isn't too personal, where are you from?

    I would never say that Ninjas are weak. Because TO camouflage is so powerful and their CC mastery is something I would like to have in PanO as it is really powerful to kill some nasty troops and punish overconfident players.

    There are Snipers, even in MO. TO MULTI Sniper Order sergeant is one that is infamous for is flexibility and unexpected AROs. Black Friars can be powerful in active turn too.
     
  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    And it's something that can be done in both vanilla and sectorials, as you have access to multiple snipers in each of them.

    Keep in mind, that creating a list too focused on long range sniping might leave you at a disadvantage on tables with less open terrain, when enemy gets up close, or when you'll need a high burst automatic weapon for your active turn. Good list should be able to cover all range bands.
     
  14. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you'd be more interesting in "Human Interface - Nakamura Tower"? Boardgame with mins. Cause Infinity...how to name it...It would a compliment if I say that Infinity is not a "begginer-friendly" game ... (truth is ...its awful game at the start, especially vs experienced players, and you won't learn it if you don't planing to play vs experienced players)

    If you don't have active community nearby - I don't see any reason in buying Inifnity. Its a wargame, where deep meta-game can depend on local community, on tournaments, on missions... It's very deep game...and Very-very-very rules-frustrating. 100% your first several months will be played wrong, not by rules. Miniatures are nice...but only when painted and glued (and some miniatures are SUCH A PAIN to glue... I remember gao-tarsos nightmare :( it still awakes me in a middle of night).
     
  15. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    While I can't disagree, nobody started with the game as anything but a beginner (Infinity was the second wargame I was learning rules for, and the first one I actually collected minis for).

    I would still suggest you to find out if there are people nearby with whom you could play at least semi-regularly though.
     
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  16. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Great advice here, but one thing I want to emphasise.

    Early on it's easy to get super focused on all the "cool units". The big bad shooters.

    Don't.

    Much of Infinity is about using your "Specialist" units (Doctors, Engineers, Forward Observers, Hackers, Chain of Command and Specialist Troopers) to accomplish mission objectives. Without these units doing their thing you won't get far.

    Infinity is also a resource management game, and the most valuable resource in the game is Orders. Regular Orders especially, but also Impetuous and Irregular Orders. You don't get many Impetuous or Irregular options in PanOceania 'though, so that makes things simpler. This is simple - YOU NEED ORDERS. 10 Orders is the "minimum" to play effectively (especially above 200pts) but broadly speaking the more orders you have access to the more effective your force will be (although this starts to dip off around the 20 order mark as lowering quality negatively impacts on results regardless of the number of activations you have).

    So, how do you get orders?

    Cheaper "cheerleader" troops.

    PanOceania is well supplied for these, with the Fusilier (especially the plain and Lt options, as well as the Hacker), the Auxilia (especially the forward Observer), the Regular (especially their Minelayer/Sensor profile) and the Pathfinder and Fugazi remotes. Our "Support Pack" Trauma Doc and Machinist are also good cheap specialist support options which you'll miss if you don't have them.

    These units aren't the place to park heavy weapons (anything which costs SWC basically, beyond the 0.5 for a Hacker) but they offer great defensive support and expanded capabilities for cheap, while putting orders into the pool for you to spend on a Bulleteer (another great discount option) Nisse, or Swiss Guard (two of our elite pinnacle troopers).

    Overlooking the cheaper options is a great way to get stuck in the "noob trap" of Infinity... too much "good stuff" with nothing to fuel it, or too many points stacked into too few options.
     
  17. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I'm a JSA player but probably less experienced with it than most of the more recognizable names here -- but my perspective on Ninjas is this:

    Ninjas are definitely not the problem in JSA right now. It's just that most people don't understand when they are good, imo.

    A ninja KHD is a 29 point specialist with hidden deployment, insane CC, surprise attack, but most importantly infiltration + marker state. They take objectives and then proceed to waste enemy orders -- if my 29 point ninja, who I spent one order taking an objective and one order re-camoing on, wastes 3-4 orders of yours, I'm pretty happy with that -- my opponent is either forced to advance an MSV2 unit who isn't a specialist to do objectives (exception: Konstantinos, but it's a very rare to have MSV2 and be a specialist), spec-fire some cheap template at me (assuming he can even find an angle to do so without eating shots from some other piece first, and even then I'm happy he's wasting orders) or risk getting dodge-engaged if they get up on the objective.

    Any ninja with a Combi Rifle is a really good order waster if the opponent has no long range MSV2. A ninja in cover with suppressive is a -12 to shoot at before range bands. Same for the Ninja MSR (-9 before range bands, ideally -12 if I've picked a good perch), in addition to the fact that revealing it from Hidden Deployment to force an opponent to split burst can make them take a really, really disadvantageous shot first.

    YJ as a whole has a weaker reactive turn than most other factions, so a lot of people don't consider Ninjas as order wasters -- and admittedly, there are a lot of conditions to be met for them to work, but when they do work, they work very well.


    I think JSA has some problems, but it's not about individual units as much as some loadouts -- they need either some better high burst options (BS12 spitfire on a Domaru is questionable, their TAG has a regular HMG instead of a MULTI HMG, and their 3 units with HMGs are a line troop, a TR remote, and the TAG, for example) or they need something like Eclipse smoke.
     
    #17 meikyoushisui, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  18. DrunkCorsair

    DrunkCorsair Well-Known Member

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    You and a few friends is a good start. Play games. learn the rules and start your own community. Yes it will need some work but can be very rewarding.
    On the matter of airbrushes, you dont need an airbrush to paint miniatures.
    I dont know if you have any experience in miniature painting but you dont need as much as you think.
    You need a pair of quality Kolinsky red sable brushes and a few cost effective ones (i wouldnt say cheap ones, but some that can be a bit abused where you dont have to watch out for damage and can be easily replaced), a wet palette and some paints and primer.

    If you dont have any experience with painting miniatures, an airbrush wont help you to achive better results, as you lack experience with paint and knowledge surrounding technics, etc.
    Yes, you see alot of painters using an airbrush, as it can help to achive consistant results and a good start and Angel Giraldz uses it alot for his style of painting but there are other well know painters that mostly use only brushes.
    Look for Roman Lappat from Massive Voodoo who doesnt use an airbrush alot or others.
    If you start paintign get The Arsies Painting Toolbox book. If you dont have someone to show you how to paint that book is great for beginners with miniature painting and covers alot of subjects you should know.
     
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