Haven't had many opportunities to play Infinity for a bit, but I decided to go to an event this weekend with 14 or so players. While I have mostly been playing Tunguska when last I was playing frequently; I've decided to run Druze for this one. Druze look fun after the new additions, but I'm not really sure where they sit in the meta right now. I'm just looking to knock the rust off with something fun. Druze has seen some changes since I last played them, so maybe you all have some ideas on what i should run. I'm more interested in keeping the pace of the game up than I am in running something super competitive. So "simple to run" is my goal. The missions are Engineering Deck (from season 8), Cryogenics, and Supremacy. If any of you fellow Druzers have any tactical or list advice or just some fun ideas to play, I'm all ears and thank you in advance for any consideration. I wrote this one up to play just because it looked fun for this season, but I royally screwed up playing it and let my buddies Starmada HRL it out of existence, but at least Saito assassinated Hector. :) Druzes and Dragoons ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 3 ARSLAN (Lieutenant) MULTI Rifle, Light Shotgun / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 36) DRUZE (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) DRUZE (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16) CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 37) MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) GROUP 2 4 1 1 PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Anyways, thanks again in advance and it's kinda fun just to post on these forums after so long.
I'd be tempted in certain missions to change out a pathfinder to a EVO. You might need Fairy Dust and Controlled Jump (if you are doing CJ with the YY). Enhanced Reaction might even be useful at times. Also depending, I'd switch out Saito for Armand. Otherwise I think it’s a good generic, all commers list.
I've been playing around with something similar @jfunkd Just never liked Arslan but that's the challenge of playing Druze, super vulnerable to assassination runs. I would love to get TaoWu in there to provide a shell game. Gotta find it ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 1 DRUZE (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) VALERYA GROMOZ (Hacker) Combi Rifle, Zapper, Pitcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) BRAWLER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 17) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 37) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) GROUP 2 4 1 1 ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Breaker Pistol(+1B), Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
I like Arslan because he can easily be in a 4 man team and with yuan yuan, Druze aren't lacking for Smoke anymore. Dam 14 multi solves a lot of problems. His durability is nice, it will probably fail you when you need it most, but he is the toughest Lt in a shallow pool by far. I'd really like to see a Taowu list since Engineering Deck is in the line up and I think he could be good in the box, but every attempt I have made ends up a hot mess since i just don't have any experience with him on a table. I love the Pathfinder spam, but Cyrogenics looks like it wants at least one Hunzakut. So I'm torn.
A little follow up. Turned out to be a 14 player event with some good players. It's been a hot minute since I've played in any event, so I hoped just have some good games skimming the bottom brackets. Game 1 was versus Shasvasti in Engineering Deck from a previous ITS season. I played list 1, and hoo boi... the dice just took a crap on my opponent. He failed 4 times getting his Q-drone back up after my Brawler put it down 3 times, he only won 3 FtF rolls all game, and I made armor saves on 2 of those. It was ugly bad, and he was really a good sport about it. Highlight of this game was the MBH getting Mimetism -6 and killing a Taihga, 2 M-Drones and a Shrouded hacker and having a Haiduk just straight up miss her when she should have died to the uncontested ARO. Also counter deploying a Speculo on a rooftop in my DZ with the prone Peacemaker ended up being a good call. 10-1 Druze over Shas. Game 2 was Cryogenics versus Tohaa. The table was super crowded with terrain. I hadn't yet seen a list dedicated to delivering Phero attacks, and I got murdered. I played pretty poorly, and list 2 just didn't feel like it had enough gas for the Amadeus haris. I was in Retreat bottom of 3. 2-8 Druze loses to Tohaa. Game 3 was a fantastic battle versus Morats in Supremacy. Despite taking more losses, I was able to pull it out with Saito hidden deployment, tilting a quad my way and also getting my third console. Highlight of the game was a Digger with 5 ARM taking out a Kaitok Feuerbach in melee. 7-6 Druze over Morats. So I went 2-1 on the day against some really good players and had a lot of fun! List 1 Druzes and Dragoons2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 3 ARSLAN (Lieutenant) MULTI Rifle, Light Shotgun / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 36) DRUZE (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) DRUZE (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16) CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 37) MOTORIZED BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 9) GROUP 2 3 2 1 PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) NASMAT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army List 2 Rock me Amadruzus ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 2 3 DRUZE Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 31) DRUZE (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) DRUZE Shock Marksman Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 4 2 1 WOLFGANG AMADEUS MULTI Rifle(+1B), Chain-colt / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 35) BRAWLER (Doctor) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I just had to add to this post. Having been an old school DBS player, I'm simply amazed by the flexibility I can get out of this sectorial now. Back when I played Druze frequently, the framework for my lists was pretty close to the same every time. Druze had what they needed to win games at the time, but the only real flex I found in lists was to Saito, or Armand, Scarface or not and a few rather superficial changes based on the scenarios. I think that Druze got worse as army design opened up with N4 and a new baseline was established, but I was mostly playing Tunguska then and didn't have a practical knowledge of Druze. All that said, I played a game last night with a divergent list (at least for me, and how I've played DBS) and it was really liberating. I didn't take many of the staples that I'm used too. It didn't hurt that I did really well in the game with it. ;) I don't present this list as an example of a great list, just one that was flexing what I'm used to playing in druze and celebrating the flexibility this sectorial has with the additions that came around the time Tagraid & Fireteam changes. Anyways, I'm just rambling at this point, but I had a ton of fun playing this. I won the ini roll and went first on Uplink Center. Got in a great Alpha strike with the Taowu (holo'd as a Brawler lt profile), Brawler HRL, and Aida Haris versus a Hector Starmada list. Then was able to hang on to the lead. Not sure if the list has the chops to start reactive or not, but it was nice to play something so unconventional to me. Thought I'd share it, thanks for indulging an old Druze hack and his new experinces. Say Hello To My Little Friend ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 1 1 SCARFACE Loadout Gamma & CORDELIA TURNER undefined / undefined. (1.5 | 81) SCARFACE Loadout Gamma AP Spitfire(+1B), Panzerfaust / DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 64) SCARFACE Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (- | 0) CORDELIA TURNER Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17) DRUZE (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) DRUZE (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Pitcher, D-Charges ( ) / Viral Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30) BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 27) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) TÁOWÙ (Counterintelligence) Nanopulser(+2B), Flash Pulse(+1B) / Viral Pistol(+1B), Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) AÏDA SWANSON FTO (Minelayer) Submachine Gun, Viral Mines / Viral Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 20) GROUP 2 2 3 1 HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
I'm interested in your thoughts on the Druze hacker - it seems to be the first thing I cut as Valerya does hacking better (but not a pure link team) or the Brawler does it dramatically cheaper (less WIP, no pitcher and not veteran). In this list you would almost be better running double KHD?
I actually think it's better than Velerya. It's veteran and immune to Oblivion. It has X-Visor changes those medium and long ranges for it's Pitcher. D-Charges for those missions that need them. Only 1pt less WIP but BTS3. ARM 3 instead of 1. Easy to get the pure link bonuses. Velerya doesn't count as anything. Finally, a better gun fighter with it's +1 dmg and X-Visor All that for 7 or 9pts more. I think it's worth it.
I have to agree with @Space Ranger. He makes excellent points. N4 made low BTS hackers pitcher bait and their inclusion into fireteams comes with an inherent weakness of them being hacked out if you start reactive. I used to rate the Brawler Hacker and Gromoz much higher. They are far from useless, but as a primary hacker in the fireteam that gets 6th Sense or 5 man bonuses, it's risky and Gromoz costs you some Ballistic Skill.
I'm a huge fan of Spotlight in N4. Though in my game with that list, I couldn't get it or oblivion to stick in ARO.
I had a friend literally cover a board with pitchers. They reliably hit with them because of the link bonus as well as the x-visors. If you have a KHD and a HD that’s four pitchers! Having a baggage bot can make even more. Because of the reliability he was able to shoot in two different places instead of two in one like some do. It was a hacking minefield! Edit: If I remember correctly this was with QK and not Druze but same thing.
This is kinda my point, if you have a druze pitcher unit already then the 2nd is redundant for pitcher placement. Valerya at WIP 14 is arguably a more effective offensive hacker, particularly against TAGs. 9pts is not an insignificant amount and presents as a premium for all of the additional gear that the druze hacker brings - those points turn a Warcor into an ABH or a Fugazi into a pathfinder into the list above. I agree with all of the listed advantages you've set out @Space Ranger. I suppose I'm suggesting the comparison isn't whether those are worth 9pts but whether those points are what you are bringing the unit for and whether sacrificing that redundancy could provide greater value elsewhere in the list. I certainly agree, maintaining a pure core link for the brawler sniper is critical!
This sounds great in theory, but I find I land one pitcher for every two shots. It almost doesn't matter what range I'm at. Also they are aggressively destroyed by my opponents. Pitcher redundancy in certain Druze lists, especially ones that want to LGL or Guided, is critical. I don't want to make the room for baggage in most of my lists, so if I need pitchers my list often starts with the Drzue Hacker and Killer Hacker.
It really comes down to what works best for you. Both Druze and Valerya have merits. The best thing to do is jut try both and see what happens.
Whenever I list Druze I'm always short on points to bring what I want, and I always bring the Brawler Lt just to spend less.... The Druze HD costs way too much in my opinion
I think this is a reasonable take that supports your playstyle. @Space Ranger said it above, it's what works best for you. Despite what these forums often preach, there is more than one way to play a faction; even a faction like DBS that is limited in some common elements. For instance, I typically pull Arslan for my Lt. I find a BS 13 MSV multi rifle in a faction that has limited access to MSV, on a unit with pseudo 2 wounds, in a fireteam that can get 6th sense, and has cheap access to smoke, has a good role in my game on the table. He frequently does work, especially in the late game. Just last night, he killed the Uberfall Chimera, Senior Massacre, and a Pathfinder before getting ARO crit by a Zero bottom of round 2. Arslan as a Lt is often relegated by the list's goals and other content. So harder to take if I'm going to run Scarface, but he's not as needed in those lists. My take on the Druze hacker is different than yours. Is he over costed? Yeah, I think all Druze are in N4 where HI and TAGs get an incredible point discount and Medium Infantry typically are bloated with skills and equipment while getting no discount on points or SWC. At least they move 4-4 now, lol. That said, the list I ran last night had 3 Druze and Arslan. I think there is a forum trap that players fall into, the idea that Infinity games are always won by taking the most cost efficient units. I mean sure, it's a part of what works, but more important is being comfortable with and knowing how to use the units you put on the table. My unsolicited advice is: always trust your subjective experience over forum group-think, but keep an open mind to what others say about units and strats. Also, don't get locked into a single list framework and be willing to experiment with unit composition even if it costs you a few wins.
You make a lot of sense, my friend. In that spirit I am trying to figure out ML bots in Druze, as well as Bashi Bazouks, with mixed results, but a lot of fun. I've also tried Saito, and he did a lot of good work, but only againist players at-or-below my ability level, and even in those cases, he made me pay dearly any mistake I made with him. Did you ever try Wolfgang? I feel like in a haris with a doctor and anything long range for support (even a akrylat kanone) he could do a lot of good work
Only once with a proxy. Unfortunately I used him in a battle group that didn’t have enough to fuel his haris and a hunzakut in Cyrogenics. I faced down an excellent player who ran a brutal Tohaa Phero list. I was destroyed before I got to do much with him. He’s on my painting table now and I hope to run him again soon.I believe I did run him with a Doctor and a Brawler HRL. I’m going to try that haris again for sure, I have high hopes for it. edit: that list is above in one of my posts, make sure to build his battle group better than I did! ;)
Bashi are tricky to use for me. I like them but the Irregular can hurt if there’s too many. It’s worse in Ikari and Dahshat. I think they should only be used in particular missions.
I have always wanted to create a battle group with 4 Bashis and a couple regular orders. The idea would be to move them each into total cover, less than a base's width from a corner with a fire lane that Suppression Fire can cover. Then coordinate them into Suppression. At the states phase, the holoechos form, and then they can be positioned to cover those lanes without ever having to be exposed to ARO. It would be impractical and glorious.
