Please help me get clarity on these. Some are basic and I can answer them. Yes, some of these are basic and fairly trivial to answer correctly with a "No." as they're examples of trying to ferret out information you shouldn't have, but I'd like some meat on the bones of my answers if you can help me with that :). I'll mark the stuff that's not actually basic. Are you allowed to... Pre-measure distances on the table prior to the game has started? Pre-measure deployment zones during the game (f.ex. Airborne Infiltration)? Pre-measure important distances during deployment, such as making sure there's more than 16" to the table edge when deploying AI Beacons? Check trigger area prior to committing to mine placement? (Minelayer) Check trigger area after placing something that's not a mine? (Pretend minelayer) Not check trigger area when placing a mine reasonably close to enemy? (Minelayer) Check blast area when deploying a miniature so it doesn't cause collateral blast template damage? Check blast area by over-measuring ZoC when forming Fireteams? Check ZoC on a fireteam-leader to objects or miniatures that's actually not part of the fireteam? Cancel a fireteam during deployment phase (to get above ZoC measure or simply hiding what's in reserves)? Pre-measure board features to find out if a miniature needs one or two Climb orders, can safely jump up or down from it, or gains total cover behind it or not, prior to the situation calling for it happening? Pre-measure as above when figuring out Impetuous Movement? Place a template prior to distributing burst? Place a template prior to committing to where to stick the Smoke Grenade? Place a template prior to committing to where to place the Speculative Fire attack? Wave the teardrop template around to optimise number of targets hit? Keeping in mind I'm only actually interested in RAW. House rules and making games work in a casual manner is fairly easy to solve, but sometimes I feel like the rules tell you "strictly no pre-measuring" and then hands you situations that are hard or inconvenient to solve and offers no mechanical instructions of doing so. So if you're not allowed to wave any teardrops around at all, how do you handle Speculative Fire and Flamethrower attacks? If you're not allowed to check enemy DZ, how do you handle accidentally placing the AD2 trooper in the enemy DZ?
The ruleset as it is right now doesn't actually forbid premeasuring wholesale. There are specific instances where it is not allowed (such as while resolving orders/turns/etc.) With this in mind, some opinions, and some facts. I'll try to demark what is what. I expect to be outright wrong about some of this though. 1) Loose interpretation of facts: Yes. You have to measure some distances on the table before the game begins, and any player could reasonably triangulate any given distance if given enough time. Since technically you need to know if coherency is legal before a game, you have to be able to measure between any two given points (or alternatively, if you have a unit with infiltration and minelayer you should be able to work it out.) Because of how many technicalities rely on distance that must be measured before the game, the rules break more if you forbid this than if you don't. I would love a more explicit ruling though (such as allowing each player to explicitly measure 3 distances on the table). A lot of the further answers depend somewhat on this though. But Infinity does not forbid premeasuring outside of the order resolution sequence, much to the chagrin of many here. 2) Loose interpretation based on the fact that the rules cannot handle many situations otherwise: I believe so, if for no other reason than the AD1-2 rules don't have any way to handle failure on this deployment. (Oh hey, I wrote this before reading your last remark.) 3) Depends on 1. I don't see why not, for much the same reason as #1. You could reasonably measure it out by doing some ZoC measuring stuff. 4) The rules cannot handle this currently, and are ambiguous about trigger areas. Opinion: Only during deployment, but again the rules can't handle this currently. Technically, you should be able to measure any mines trigger area after any given order because "maybe something entered my trigger area?" The rules allow you to do it when something is close to the area would allow you to do it anytime. (CB could remove this problem by forcing players to not premeasure mines, declare when they think they would trigger, and lose the mine if the target is outside of the trigger area.) 5) Opinion following the ruling of 4: Same logic as above, only during deployment. 6) Fact: The rules do not permit this currently, as you haven't met the conditions to check the trigger area of the mine."Mines must trigger when an enemy figure or Marker declares or executes an Order or ARO inside their Trigger Area." This has not happened, so the trigger area cannot be checked. 7) Depends on the interpretation given in 1. Opnion: During deployment I would say yes (alternatively you could do some dorky stuff based on coherency and knowing the dimensions of the blast template.) 8) Can you clarify what you mean in this one? 9) Fact: Yes. Coherency: "In the Deployment Phase, the player can check Coherency, measuring the Zone of Control of the Reference Trooper to be sure the rest of the linked troopers are inside it." You are allowed to measure the entire ZoC of the reference trooper. 10) Fact: No, via Fireteam Cancellation rules. With the current phrasing, a Fireteam can only be cancelled during the active or reactive turns. 11) Fact: No during the order expenditure sequence, as this is one of the cases where premeasuring a movement would be forbidden. During deployment, depends on the answer to 1. 12) Fact: No, again due to how movement is resolved, and unfortunately this leads to issues with the resolution of impetuous orders. Currently the rule is that "the nearest enemy figure is the one that can be reached in the least number of Orders" but this does create situations in which measuring could or would be necessary. I personally think the rule should use the closest distance as measured just for the sake of ease, but using the shortest distance and then breaking ties with a difference of less than 4" by order count would at least be a little better. 13) Do you mean placing a template before declaring an attack? Or placing a template after declaring an attack but before declaring what type of attack? Currently the rules say you place the template at the moment you declare the attack. 14) Fact (or bad memory): IIRC the last time this was debated we determined there was a conflict in the rules. This also depends on the whole can of worms about how your group plays LoF (is LoF between any two points public information?) Isn't this is the one where the resolution sequence in the rules or maybe in the FAQ say that you "pick a point and then place a template" but all of the examples just say that you place the template? 15) Depends on the answer to 14. Opinion: Per the example and the 2nd bullet point of the spec fire rules, I would say yes, the only requirement is that the target be under the template AoE. 16) Speculation: Can Graphic 4 of the DTW rules even work if you aren't allowed to scoot the template how you want? Unfortunately the template rules currently don't have any examples of DTW. "Premeasuring" is such a dubious term in the game, and doesn't appear anywhere in the rules. At least the PBI players can argue based on the fact that the word "intention" appears in the Movement rules. (Plz let's not rehash that debate here, I'm just pointing out that "premeasuring" isn't real within the context of the rules.)
Several of those questions are never addressed directly in the rules. They therefore do not have answers.
I could provide answer to all these questions but I'm not sure if can point a paragraph of the rule for each of them. And if common sense agreement is not what your are looking for then can't provide answer. Nonetheless, as a lawyer I know for fact that no set of rule (in a game or in society) is going to cover every possibility. You sometime have to call for a judge / referee and they sometime have to use other things than black letter of law. For exemple "principles", "interpretation" or even "common sense". Sometime they just know what solution they want and will bend the law to make it happen as the other solution is terrible. For example, is it written somewhere I don't have the right to flip the table or slap my opponent ? Or that I have to speak in a language my opponent understand ? I don't mean to lecture you. Just trying to develop my opinion that your question doesn't necessarily have an answer RAW and maybe it's normal.
Thank you for taking the time to go through it all :) 0. I see most, if not all, your answers are dependent on how you interpret "As a general rule, the Skills that compose an Order must be declared before measuring" (no emphasis added). I think I understand your argument, however, given that by necessity the game is a permissive rule set I don't think it is correct as you'd first need to be allowed to measure things within the game. 4. In this case the question is regarding deploying the mine. If you have a minelayer, can you stick a mine down with the template "attached" and inch it as close as physically possible to a hostile camo marker? That sort of use is what I mean. 6. It's part of the requirements of the skill, and is a bit of a Zone of Control ARO issue. Can't have enemy inside trigger area when deployed, but when are you allowed to check it? 8. When you form a Fireteam, you may check so all members are in range of the leader. I suppose it depends on exactly how strict you are on deployment and if you're allowed to re-deploy the trooper (or other troopers) if they are not in range. 9. I find your interpretation that a Coherency Check means checking the entire Zone of Control interesting and probably meriting further clarification. 13. Declare BS Attack. Stick template down on enemy, count number of targets, stick it down on a different trooper, count targets, then declare burst on target that catches the most enemies. 14, 15, 16. My issue with these is that it seems like the rules doesn't want you to stick templates down and know with 100% certainty what's going to be covered before you commit, but practically this can't be handled well outside of targetless or directly targeted circular impact templates. And that's fine. If it can be reasonably established that a problem does not have an answer, that is in itself an answer. That question should then ideally go to the Unresolved Questions thread and hopefully in time be answered - if it's not a trivial question (I'd qualify the Impetuous pre-measure as fairly trivial, because usually both players can, using inaccurate measurements, decide which way requires least amount of orders) I'm the local rules guy most of the time, and I increasingly find myself questioning my sanity as the rules develop, which is why I'm asking these questions. Also, our meta has organically developed a few customs that I know for a fact are actually wrong, but they smooth the games so much I kind of hate to call it out. For example, just sticking a silhouette down next to a terrain feature typically cuts movement planning down by minutes, if not hours, per game. In either case, everything is asked in the context of "what are we allowed to do while playing the game", not what we're allowed to do outside the game, so questions like "can I flip table?" would mean your no longer playing the game. As a side note, it's funny how the game never actually says you're not allowed to move any pieces of scenery as far as I've been able to find - but that's what a permissive rule set is for :)
Do the rules give you permission to measure in general? No. Do the rules sometimes require you to measure? Yes. What have the rules specified as far as when to measure when you know you have to measure? See below. You turn to the rules that do exist, like the deployment coherency rules, and follow their example: You commit to doing something without being able to measure before hand, then measure to see if what you've done is allowed. If it's not, you correct it. In the Deployment Phase, the player can check Coherency, measuring the Zone of Control of the Reference Trooper to be sure the rest of the linked troopers are inside it. After having checked Coherency, the player can adjust the placement of those troopers so they are all inside the Zone of Control. However, this adjustment is not allowed regarding the last figure kept back as reserve, nor during the deployment of that model (or models if any rule, Special Skill, piece of Equipment... allows to kept back several in reserve). Notice how there's no pre-measuring of the zone of control, even though that would make everything simpler and probably take less time. Instead, you place, then measure, then adjust. So the rules don't prevent you from accidentally placing a trooper outside of ZoC, but they do allow you to avoid leaving it there. See also movement declaration--you declare movement paths and then truncate if the allowed distance is exceeded. See also ZoC ARO declarations--you declare the ARO and then measure later. See also the template placement and nullification examples.
Yes, but correct it how? Least distance or try a new placement? And in case of Fireteams, can you redeploy the fireteam completely?
This is based solely on the reading of the RAW (quoted in my original answer.) If the intent was that you were not allowed to check the entire ZoC, the rule should instead read: Coherency: "In the Deployment Phase, the player can check Coherency, measuring from the rest of the linked troopers to ensure they are in the Zone of Control of the Reference Trooper."
