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Bandit vs Overdron

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Nicklz, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Nicklz

    Nicklz Well-Known Member

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    I had an interesting situation in a game yesterday and been mulling it over, maybe you can give me some pointers:
    A Bandit killer hacker is in Camo state prone on a rooftop (~3") in ZOC but not LOF of a very annoying Overdron that has to go. There are 5 orders left. Whats the best approach? I decided to shotgun him and failed to do more than 1 wound. ADHL? Would melee be the better approach? Would a AHD have been any help?

    Thanks for the help!
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I do not know the loadout of the Overdron (it might be relevant), nor how many wounds does it have remaining. But let's have a look at things:
    • Surprise Shot: You will fire at 18 B2, and your enemy will Dodge at 2 (Surprise shot + TAG + dodging from out of LoF), or counterfire at 1 (-3 because of distance, -3 because of Camo, -3 because of Surprise Shot, -3 because of cover).
      • If you fire the light shotgun (you roll at 18), it will would on a 7 or less in the wounds roll, with Burst 2
      • If you fire the ADHL(you roll at 9), the TAG will have to roll 8 or less or become IMM2, meaning 9+ and its glued, but it's Burst 1.
    So, firing at it will yield better results, if the Overdron has 2+ wounds, using the ADHL. Now, if you fail to glue him down, the next attacks will be TAG Dodging at 8/counterfire at 4, with you still firing at 9 with the ADHL and 18 with the shotgun.
    • Engaging in melee: you can get down and do a Surprise Attack (maybe 2-3 orders, MA and camo grants Stealth, so as long as you move, no ARO from the TAG which does not see you):
      • You will use MA Lv1 on your first attack, wich means a -9 to the enemy roll, and a damage of 14.
      • You will roll at CC21 Vs Dodge 2 (you will impose max -12) or CC 2 (again, max penalties: an Overdron has to use bare hands to fight at CC).
        • On next CC clashes, you will roll at 21 (again MA1), while the TAG will go at CC8 or Dodge at 5.
      • You will wound with an 8 or less, a little worst than with ADHL.
      • The TAG is tied up with you, cannot act and in his turn will need to separate from the Bandit (or try and kill it).
    So, if what you want is just to tie it up, I'd suggest ADHL if you feel lucky, or Melee if you don't care (for example it's the last turn). If you have to destroy the TAG (because it is controlling a quadrant/console/whatever), then you can only go with the Shotgun, since you will have better Burst, and no need to waste orders to relocate.
     
  3. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Curious situation because of no Pistol or DTW. Usually getting to CC is better but without a pistol that's not as true anymore. Assuming you get it out of cover. You get a slightly higher chance to wound it in CC but a higher chance to get hit back as well.

    Stats-wise it will take about 6 orders to kill with the LSG, that's probably your best bet. Just get lucky if you need to do it in 5 orders. If you don't like it take the BSG or use a different unit.
     
  4. Nicklz

    Nicklz Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Glad to hear I didn't miss an obvious move.

    I seriously have to reconsider how to deal with Tags in my Corregidor list. This thing rampaged through 4 Jaguars, Massacre and MSR Intruder without a scratch and took 2 Alguacils, a Daktari and a Salyut with him, all in one turn.
     
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    If you can stay active Massacre can do it well. Getting any Jag to CC is good especially E/M. Remember you can use stun rounds in reaction from the Intruder MSR to stop him acting. Otherwise hacking zones are the best way to slow it down.

    If you are active a Jaguar link is a demo team.

    Tomcat E/Mitter has a decent chance by dropping/climbing for back shots. Hellcat HMG getting him out of cover can do well. Making a triangle with Drops, Bandits, an Intruder or other DZ gun so he always has a no LoS facing is something I like to use on TAGs.

    That is, any two targets can always fall in the same 180 degree arc, so the only way to have constant back shots is a triangle. Drops are very good at this for obvious reasons.
     
    #5 loricus, Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    In general, TAGs can be dealt with in four ways. The first, your own TAGs/Heavy Weapons, but Corregidor's don't have the "punch" (HMG on the Iguana, mk12/combi on the Geckos) and the Heavy Weapons are on the Brigadas or the fragile Wildcats/Alguaciles, which leads us to the second way, disposables: D-Charges (wildcats, tomcats, clockmaker, kowalski... A desperate move, anyway), Blitzen (Geckos, for E/M damage), E/Maulers (E/M mines, on bandits or hellcats), Panzerfaust (AP+EXP, on Jaguars, gecko and Lupe Balboa), or the third way, specific gear: E/mitter (20 points Tomcat for a tear template EM/2 ammo=> 2 BTS/2 rolls or IMM2), Tsyklon's Feuerbach. The fourth way would be "soft kill", meaning neutralization without killing: Señor Massacre E/M weapons (grenades, CC weapon), Electric Pulse, and ADHL.

    So, first thing to remeber: a Servitor (3 points Zondbot / 4 points Zondcat) can tie an enemy TAG and ruin its day. CC14 means the Overdron has to roll at 11 or dodge at 7, which means he needs 7-11 on a CC attack or a crit while dodging or suffer IMM-2. While this can be a desperate move, remember that there is no BTS roll to avoid this. So the Overdron has 25% chance of NOT going IMM-2 for the rest of the turn (on the other hand, it has a 20% of wreking your small remote).

    Second thing: protect your assets. Mr Massacre can, if linked, wreck an enemy TAG. If he is alone, then it might be better to speculative fire grenades at the TAG. As for the rest, well, a Wildcats fireteam is like the Intruder, able to do something in reactive but deadly in the active turn, and the HRL can be intimidating. Or, if you are trying something not very dependant on fireteams, a three man Mobile Brigada (HMG+ML+Tinbot) can really ruin your enemy's day.

    Third thing: do not think along the lines of "single order to solve it". Go for the combo. If it's your active turn, try a Coordinated Order with ADHL + panzerfaust + emitter troops and laugh, your enemy TAG will have to roll dodge or assume impacts (hint: if he is a good player, he will probably go for killing one of those troops and eat the rest of the attacks, hoping to get there with an engineer and release/repair the TAG).

    Essentially, it pays off to have something to deal with 5+ ARM/BTS enemy troops, at least two ways, since on this ITS we have both the "cheap TAGs" (Xeo/Overdron, Geckos...) and the "I can go with 1 combat group, go first, and then you cannot take 2 orders from me".
     
  7. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Moran Repeaters. Sixth sense hacking ARO on either your Alguacil or your Wildcat link or Valerya Gromoz (although she doesn’t have sixth sense). It’s not a bulletproof solution that will deal with the TAG in a direct sense, it’s merely the fact that you’re forcing your opponent to burn a lot of orders to deal with it. Something they can almost never afford with Onyx/Combined Army. Curiously, I’ve come to rely much more on Moran repeater coverage in Corregidor than I do in vanilla. There’s just something safe about having your very obvious Interventor Lt. Only be in hacker range when you want him to be, via a bandit repeater or a humble E/Mauler Zero.
     
  8. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Thinking along these same lines, it's also perfectly acceptable (if the TAG doesn't need to be removed immediately) to walk your bandit into CC and just end it there. Forcing someone else to deal with your better CC piece can be very cost effective, especially in a situation where upon using 5 orders to kill something, you don't have the orders to move your bandit and he's hung out to dry.
     
    T. Rex Pushups likes this.
  9. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    This is great just watch out for enemy models that can use triangulated fire to clear the bandit easily with 0 risk of hitting their friend.
     
  10. Bobman

    Bobman MERC
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    Why does the Overdron roll CC11 vs a Servant bot?
     
  11. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Righ now I'm not sure, I'd need to re-check everything. I can confirm, however, that the Overdron would suffer a -2 dmg malus because it has no CCW (english rules for N3 v1.8, page 116, "bare handed" entry)
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Electric Pulse used to give -6 to CC back in the olden days. Maybe it was misremembered as - 3?
     
  13. Bobman

    Bobman MERC
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    Wondered if I was missing something.
     
  14. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Just running some numbers:

    If you surprise-shoot the Overdron in the back (assuming it has no cover from this angle), you have about a 50% chance of inflicting a wound. On followup shots, the loss of marker state and surprise has a minimal impact on your odds. Even if it manages to turn around, range, cover, and camo have it shooting back with a BS of 4, which is about the same as the pathetic PH it was trying to dodge on.

    Due to the lower burst and 0 modifier in the 0-8" range band, the adhesive option is less likely to do anything than the shotgun. On the other hand, if you do succeed, it has a much greater impact than the one wound you said you managed to inflict.

    Assuming you can get down to ground level while remaining out of sight, CC is also an option. The initial swing using surprise attack is better than the shotgun, with MA2 scoring higher than MA1. Once you're stuck in, you continue the same pattern, with MA1 being safer and MA2 being more likely to inflict damage.

    If you want to be really fancy, once you've gotten it stuck with adhesive you can run into CC and try to finish it off with MA2 normal rolls.
     
    Bobman likes this.