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Bakunin: Kusanagi Haris a must have?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Lothair, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Lothair

    Lothair Well-Known Member

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    I've had a problem with making Bakunin lists for quite some time because of the following:

    [​IMG] Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] KUSANAGI Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (+1 | 44)
    [​IMG] REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] REVEREND HEALER Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 32)

    0.5 SWC | 110 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The damn link is so good because of the ODD, V:NWI on Kusanagi with her Multi Rifle, and all the hacking sheningans of the HD+ Custodier. Not to mention great stats on Kusanagi and 3 specialists including a Doctor. Whenever a I try making a Bakunin list it seems lacking without a Custodier hacker, and some form of doctor so I end up with taking the haris again.

    What LTs do you guys use and how do you substitute that amazing fireteam for just 0.5SWC and 110 points in your list? It seems like a must have in Bakunin.
     
    #1 Lothair, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  2. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's not auto, but if it's working out for you just make it your thing. Switching off of things when they start working makes the game a lot more difficult :tearsofjoy:
     
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  3. Zakalwe

    Zakalwe Bomber Harris, Do It Again!

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    tl;dr it's meta dependent, but there are a few situations in which you would want to leave them home.

    Avicenna is a straight upgrade over the Reverend Healer, having better WIP, Doctor Plus, and V:NWI. Additionally, she often does a lot more healing because she can actually take a Zondbot, which the Reverend Healer can't do much with as she's in the Fireteam. You also won't be trying to heal Kusanagi that often due to her V:NWI, which leaves the Reverend Healer to heal the Custodier... which isn't the unit who will be taking hits.

    Because of their slow 4-2 Movement and short ranged weapons, it's fairly easy for the opponent to guess which route they'll be taking, meaning that if they're clever they will put you in a situation where you have to choose between Kusanagi taking an uncontested shot to the face, or taking a hit with your Custodier. Anything with MSV2 that can out-range Kusanagi will also often destroy her rather quickly. So on tables that are relatively open, especially against opponents who field TO Camo KHDs or MSV2 Snipers, the Kusanagi/Custodier/Healer haris is often a worse choice than a haris of Riot Grrls, especially in your reactive turn.

    Kusanagi and the Custodier profile are also both relatively obvious LTs, so you have to be careful about how you construct the rest of your list. If your only potential LTs are those two, it makes it more likely your opponent will set up as assassination run on them, which is often doable given that Kusanagi likes to be in the middle of the board rather than hanging back.
     
  4. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    You can heal troops in NWI.
     
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  5. Zakalwe

    Zakalwe Bomber Harris, Do It Again!

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    Ah sorry, I didn't explain myself very well, I meant that it might be a waste of orders in many situations to try and heal Kusanagi when she's in V:NWI rather than continuing to use her to move+shoot. The Reverend Healer has a one in four chance of failing, which is often worse odds than just using Kusanagi to continue to attack against most enemy models, relying on her ODD and ability to pump out plenty of dice to keep her safe. The biggest issue though is that if Kusanagi is in V:NWI it means she's still part of your haris, meaning that if you activate your Healer you also activate Kusanagi, meaning she'll take uncontested hits from whatever it is that killed her in the first place, unless you drop the link (which is more command tokens just reforming it).
     
  6. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Always return to total cover before shooting unless you have a reason not to. And an order to add crit resistance is almost always worth it, you can use Command Tokens to reroll.

    Every troop has a lifespan until a lucky hit comes back. Ways around that are expensive and powerful.
     
  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Avicenna is an upgrade to the Healer... except for 2 reasons:
    First you have to move her to where you want her (sure she is fast, but a Daktari is 13 points cheaper and can use a Zondbot just as well :p), while the Healer is with the team.

    Second, the Reverend Healer can pull double duty in melee. CC 19 plus EXP weapon, in a Haris that can give her Burst 3 with damage 14? Anytime, lady! Kusanagi is CC16 (with, for some reason, a shock CCW, which I think is a point saver since a knife is both Shock and silent, yet she doesn't have stealth, so...) and the Custodier is CC14 with a knife.

    So for example, you can go and get the enemy building in the sabotage mission (EXP CCW is antimaterial!), or blow up antennas the Custodier has marked with Spotlight!
     
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  8. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I actually see Kusanagi as a kind of trap character. As in, a haris like this is very useful, but you're sinking a third of your points in it while strapping the biggest fire magnet in the human sphere to your scantily clad ladies' back.

    For myself I often prefer a single, unlinked reverend custodier as a lieutenant, or even a moderator in a defensive link with one or two sniper rifles. Really, that +1 swc isn't as useful as it looks when you don't have points for big guns and investing too much in a repeater network might leave you high and dry when you face an opponent that isn't so vulnerable to hacking to begin with.
     
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  9. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    Nope, definitely no must have but still okay to have.
    They actually die pretty fast if Shock, Viral, Plasma or DA ammunition is present.
    A Riot Grrl Haris has similar shooting capabilities and brings three additional real wounds whilst being (a Moderator Lt. and an Assault Pistol Morlock) cheaper. Without any specialist troops though.

    [​IMG]Grrls'n Freaks
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL MULTI Rifle, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

    0.5 SWC | 109 Points

    Also I see the Spitfire Kusanagi as better suited for the Three Nuns Haris due to her bringing a wider range band and higher burst to the Fireteam.
     
    #9 Tristan228, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  10. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    This is the experience I have had with her as well. The +1 SWC unfortunately never really seems to come into play since you can't really find a way to fit in enough SWC while staying inside 300 pts with a viable compostion. The most successful times I've experienced her being run are as a single unit (non-LT) or as part of a 5-man link to get the +3 BS.

    Also this is really worth remembering. I do think that a healer isn't really optimal most of the time, but she definitely has a place in a Reverend link.
     
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  11. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    The +1 SWC might be helpful to offset the Meteor but I've never been able to use it in ISS either.
     
  12. Zakalwe

    Zakalwe Bomber Harris, Do It Again!

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    I find that the +1 SWC can often come in handy to help you pad out links with high-cost SWC weapons you might otherwise not be able to afford: MULTI Rifle/Light E/M Grenade Launcher and MULTI Snipers for Moiras, or MULTI-Snipers or extra Pitcher models for Moderators, both of which have a reasonable amount of utility. It also tends to make it a lot more easier to jam a HMG Sin Eater into your lists too.
     
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  13. wendigo

    wendigo Nomad Artichoke

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    When I take the Kusanagi Haris, I always end up with the Spitfire profile instead of the MULTI. With that slow 4-2 MOV, the extra range helps her get into optimal quicker, and extra burst and damage just takes her over the top. If I have the points, I like the Healer having a MULTI rifle as well, as she's no slouch with BS13.

    They have too many weaknesses and counters to be an autoinclude, but I almost always have fun with them when I put them in a list.
     
  14. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I could see that being a fair use.
     
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  15. Tmist

    Tmist Member

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    I love the golden trio, but i only use it some of the time. A lot of it depends on what I'm trying to accomplish. The following list i use in missions like rescue or any of the missions where you have to grab something and run away. Infiltrating Bran Do and covering him with the morlock Smoke grenade launcher is a lot of fun. Gives him free reign to kill things or sync and run with civis or boxes. But with this list my goal is different from what the golden trio is usually trying to do. Which is stay at mid ranges and sit on objectives or hunt and kill MSV troops (God bless white noise). I know they have more uses, but that is what tends to happen when i use them because anything with OOD in suppress fire and in cover is hard to dig out.

    But look at the mission and say to yourself what can accomplish this better (or differently) than Kusanagi
    Sometimes just trying to do something different sparks a whole new idea for a list.

    [​IMG] Rescue
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    [​IMG] MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAN DO CASTRO (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    [​IMG] ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] SIN-EATER Mk12 / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] TASKMASTER Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53)
    [​IMG] TASKMASTER Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun, CrazyKoalas / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 47)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Combi Rifle + Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 14)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)
    [​IMG] MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6)

    6 SWC | 300 Points




    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  16. Lothair

    Lothair Well-Known Member

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    I haven't thought of that and it seems like a sweet idea. The problem is that I failed 7 out of 8 Superior Infiltration rolls on the Monkey King bastard so far :D. The one moment I didn't I managed to ping-pong a Marut with the E/Mitter to the back, so finally after 8 games he did sth.

    The smoke granade launcher is a nice synergy with him.
     
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  17. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    I prefer to use Kusanagi Spitfire, Custodier HD+ and BS healer, plus 2/3 moderators as Lt/decoy
     
  18. Raghart

    Raghart Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I don't see the Kusanagi/Custodier/Reverend Haris as a must either, even when it worked ok to me some times.

    Avicenna or even a Daktari are better healers than the Reverend Healer because of the Zondbots, being able to be virtually anywhere on the battlefield (up to FOUR amazaing zondbots on bakunin, even when normally one or two would be enough. Avicenna has the pro that is even a good a idea to advance her towards objectives at the same time that your zondbot goes to heal someone, while the Daktari is most of the time waiting somewhere safe... her main asset being a cheap doctor, probably prone behind cover or inside a building)

    Custodier is a good choice as liutenant and better choice as hacker, but she gains little by being in a linked team, except being able to shoot the pitcher with R2 and set two repeaters in the table with one order(thing easily done too and with better CD by a moderator core linke team, also giver of five lowcost orders. And inverting some CAP it can be a very cheap all purpose link team)

    There is also competition as said before by @Tristan228 with the Riot Haris, that is more "safe" to play. Just mention that they can bring a specialist too ("normal" riot + Operative Specialist, 30 points) but loosing the boarding shotgun and tinbot.

    To my taste, the Kusanagi haris (Liked the "golden trio" nickname, nice one @Tmist ) works the best in LOW TIER or MID TIER + Limited Insertion
     
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  19. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Last tournament I had him lose a surprise attack hand to hand with an order sergeant. I feel like Bran Do has a well deserved reputation of occasionally falling flat on his face.
     
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  20. Tmist

    Tmist Member

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    Yes, this does happen. Oddly, i very rarely use him to kill with. 9 out of 10 times I'm using him as a grab and go runner. Sync with 2 civis and run or grab the box and run or hit the AC2 and just be annoying by being there. I bring him because if his infiltration works it's a great day and makes winning a lot easier, but my list is still designed to do what needs to be done without him.