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Back to game - ideas and suggestions for "newbie"

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by AkiPL, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. AkiPL

    AkiPL Active Member

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    Hi all,
    After a very long break from the game (much larger than I was expeced), it is time for me to come back to the game. I fell like total newbie right now. To put it simply: I just go through rules and have no experience.

    I got almost everything JSA may need. But I don't feel "wise" enough to build something that may be use in real play. Probably I would be able to create some "fun" list (that will be wiped out in 1 turn :P), but I would like to be a bit more above that.

    Right now I have no specific missions in mind. My area is playing ITS mostly.
    I'm hoping for some general ideas: what may be worth using, (what I should learn to use: Ninjas/Oniwabans, so for sure as I'm still pretty bad with them), what I should avoid, why full Karakuri harris is a bad idea ;p etc.,
    or why I shouldn't start lists from such base:

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]6
    KUROSHI RIDER Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    ARAGOTO Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 24)
    ARAGOTO Spitfire / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 24)
    ARAGOTO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    ARAGOTO (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    YOJIMBO Contender(+1B), Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, Crazykoala / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    2 SWC | 141 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    I mean, I like bikes.
    I try to take Yojimbo everytime, but for other bikers I have mixed feelings.
     
  2. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    Actually, with the actual ITS season it is actually a valid way to start a list since you can choose if a bike is impetuous or not and if not the bike is allowed to use cover. And yojimbo gets mimetism. It is still a swingy thing but a whole lot of fun and very thematic. I have a similar list consisting of just bikes, the O Yoroi, REMs and a optional ninja.

    A full Haris of karakuri is quite expensive and lacking in some things. They are very vulnerable to be caught in close combat. If you add a domaru and for example yuriko you have a very versatile and efficient Haris that can do almost anything you want it to do.
    Personally I am a big fan of the Ryuken 9 and the tanko.
    And don't like the keisotsu as they don't do anything useful except generate orders... And seem to be quite expensive compared to some other linetroops with are exclusively superior. So I tend to don't choose any of the SWC profiles. The lu Duan and rui shi are little monsters, especially if you have supportware.
    Yoi might have to decide if you want to play samuraiheavy or skirmisherheavy. Both playstyles have their merits and weaknesses. You of course can play a mix of borh too.
    JSA has a great design and is very special in it's unique play style as we lack dedicated long range firepower. We do have very powerful closequarter combatants with the useful tool of powerful meelee. But even with the samurai you will shoot most of the time.
    Ine of the hardest tasks for JSA is to break out of the deployment zone. But there are tools to achieve this(coordinated orders, smoke, oniwanban and ninja) . Sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
     
  3. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    As Fed4ykin mentioned, bikes got a massive buff in the current ITS season, so you might as well go for that list core you posted. It is still a very unorthodox take, but they already bring decent firepower, smoke, specialists and templates on high-mobility platforms, so you might be able to save points on your skirmishers. Hard AROs with MSV will be a massive problem, though, so you need to make sure to have a plan B or deploy in a way that allows you to circumvent them and play the objectives.

    Oniwaban/Shinobu can reliably get into position to dismantle or weaken a fireteam with Infiltration (+6), so that would be an option. The BSG Oniwaban is probably easiest to trade with and losing 38 points to take out a fireteam filler might not sound like it's worth it, but sometimes it does start a domino effect that enables the rest of your list to succeed.

    I'd probably try and include get a mixed Domaru Core with Yuriko, the Kempei MSV2 and Tankos for additional firepower, ARO capability and utility. The nice thing about it is that it is relatively cheap for what it brings to the table, especially on the durability side. The Kempei synergizes well with your smoke bikers and helps against targets with Camo/Mimetism. If you are short on points, a haris is also not a bad deal, but then I'd probably opt for a Karakuri + Domaru + Wildcard instead.

    If you don't go for the Kempei, try to include the Rui Shi or Lu Duan instead to compensate. Lu Duan is a great fit in general: it can use its (B2!) HFT through smoke, so that works again nicely with your smoke bikers. It can even Holomask as 3 bikers (S4), so you can play a bit of a shell game when going second.

    Also don't forget the O-Yoroi, which is probably the best long range option in the sectorial and the most durable for absorbing tough AROs (next to Karakuri). With stealth, koalas, HFT and solid CC abilities, it's also a menace in close quarters. It's ideal for moving out of your DZ and contesting the midfield, you can even push buttons with the pilot in a pinch.
     
    #3 Knauf, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  4. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Rules:

    1. Never engage in a prolonged fight. JSA needs its orders. If you can't kill someone in 1-2 orders with > 60% on the dice calculator, choose a different tactic. This includes shooting at mimetic+armored troops.

    2. Shinobi Sneak, Samurai Charge! Always look for a way to move your troops forward.

    3. Deploy your teams to the flanks so they dont have to contest enemies in all directions, it's harder to wipe them and easier to get to the enemy DZ, even for a haris team.

    4. Deployment, if not null-deploying, only place AROs on approach corners or on first turn objectives, never the enemy DZ. Never place only 1 ARO to a single point, always place 2+ AROs to a single point. Either BS AROs on exact same LoF, or have a hidden Hackers to support BS AROs, or a mine lined up, or rarely Kitsune/Oniwaban for a Nanopulsar ARO at the end of their turn or a Kitsune/Saito Dodge/Smoke at the end of their turn.

    5. Make calculated sacrifices.


    Tips:
    Shinobu is always useful even if she fails her infiltration because she can throw smoke for other troops to move forward, can recamo and move forward quickly with climbing plus and as a last resort can go into sup fire.

    Obvious tip: Build your lists around your missions. You dont always need a Samurai-Core, sometimes 1-2 Domaru and some Karakuri or more midfield, REMs or Bikes suit the mission better.

    Oyoroi are big and wont always have total-cover on a map so in tournaments dont make both lists with an Oyoroi.

    Your Apex predators are Kitsune+Oniwaban, a Samurai Core with high burst and the Oyoroi. Always bring at least 1/3 but sometimes more.

    Tactics:
    Practice practice practice these tactics at home alot, set up a mock table and practice these tactics because they are not intuitive for most players as JSA is strong but unconventional:

    1. Least favorite but it works. Coordinated orders work but beware of coordinating against mimetism, especially if it also has armor because you'll miss more shots and then theyll tank. Most mimetic troops dont have MSV so you can use smoke or various shinobi, the ones that do have MSV are usually squishy.

    2. Moving Forward.
    Two unconventional forms of moving forward with JSA. 1st) is dodging into CC range is almost as good as doding into CC. 2nd) Shooting out of DTW range to bait a non DTW ARO then moving closer into your + BS range, hopefully removing their cover with the 2nd half of your order, is a good tactic to mitigate Trading-Down/Losing a trade against DTW users when danger close with your shinobi and samurai but also with Bikes and Karakuri. This is how to get rid of cheap warbands who cant take a hit but can dish it out or to get close enough for a CC trade against a DTW in the next order of which you're sure you're trading up.

    3. Speculative firing E/M grenades from a core team gives you a threat range of 10 inches on 14s of which you're not getting shot back at!

    4. Lastly, THE SAMURAI CHARGE this is perhaps the number one skill that I recommend you practice at home repeatedly: Making calculated sacrifices. The order declaration will be move the team leader with the high burst weapon to a corner for LoF and 1-4 members out of cover and forward as bait for an ARO, preferably for them to reach total cover at the end of the order or close enough for CC in the next order. If the enemy AROs a non-leader member, your leader gets to normal roll with bonuses against their ARO piece. Lots of your troops have Blitzen or PFs but preferably use the higher Burst troops especially those with a PF so incase the leader receives the ARO they can prevent taking a wound and wasting expendables by using a high burst weapon. You will only get to do this once or twice before you lose too many bodies but you will have moved your team forward which is what JSA wants. Dont rely on luck. Reserve this tactic for a single critical gap/loss of total cover against hard AROs. Choose to deploy on either flank where this gap presents itself closer to their DZ. The closer your samurai are the more tempted they will be to shoot at those charging in because Samurai in their back field is their nightmare, especially Domaru. This is how you force CC with Samurai. Allowing for both you and your opponent to make normal rolls just like a Berserking Domaru to trade up. In this case you may only be trading comparable point costs but what you're also trading/gaining is table control by removing their fireteam bonus and their ARO piece and moving your team forward so you can use the points that samurai pay for in CC. A variant tactic is to just use the Daiyokai or the Karakuri as a moving wall, theyll tank the AROs while the rest of the team hides behind them: You declare shoot from either durable team leader, the ARO must go to them if they are the only one visible, then move the whole team forward stating the intent is for the rest of the team to hide behind the leader.

    NINJAS-SNEAK/SAMURAI-CHARGE.
     
    #4 wuji, Oct 23, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
    Kumatake81 and Abrilete like this.
  5. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I'm in a similar boat regarding JSA, having not touched mine since 2nd ed and not being good with them then lol. So my expertise regarding JSA is limited, but I can still chime in with regards to this part of the post.

    Infinity is fundamentally different from most skirmish games in that the order system allows one trooper with one set of capabilities to act multiple times. In most games, you might want to have multiple units with overlapping skills because of attrition - the first few bikers might get shot but the others can carry on. But in Infinity, one biker can largely do all of the meaningful work that six bikers were going to do. that second Aragato spitfire for example is mostly the same capability as the first but perhaps from a different angle, which is nice but not worth doubling your cost. Whereas in a normal skirmish game it would be doubling your firepower and durability, which is worth doubling your cost.

    So as a rule of thumb, if you don't know what to do, don't take multiples of the same thing and instead take a variety of things. And beyond that, instead of taking a variety of different bikes take a variety of completely different platforms - a hidden ninja, armoured heavy infantry, and a bike are typically more useful than three ninjas, three armoured units, or three bikes.

    Regarding specific units all I can say is Yojimbo is a fucking badass and one Onibaiwan or Shinobu are in my opinion pretty close to an autoinclude due to how ITS makes going second so relevant (meaning if you are made to go first you need an alpha attack piece)
     
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