A question from the Spanish forum ... [Edit and add: link to thread] If an Avatar with [Lieutenant: +1 Order] goes to the ISOLATED state, what would happen to his two Lieutenant orders? Would he keep them for him as Irregular orders? I assume its own order and the it gets from Tactical Awareness keeps to itself, right?
If I understand this correctly, he "loses" them because they're not "his" - they've been generated by him into the Order Pool. When Isolated, he cannot receive orders from the Pool, so nobody can use those two Orders, unless you have another model with NCO. At the start of the next Active Turn, you go into Loss of Lieutenant and if the Avatar is still Isolated, he does not generate his LT orders anymore. I would assume he keeps his own Order and the Tac Aware one, because the TA one is "granted to the user".
Making the answer more general, can we say that a lieutenant in Isolated State does not generate lieutenant order/orders?
If your LT is Isolated at the beginning of your active turn then you'll be in Loss of Lieutenant anyway.
If the Avatar starts his turn in Isolated State he stops being Lt before Order generation. If you have a Caliban CoC, he'll be Lt that turn but will only generate 1 Lt Order. If your Avatar gets Isolated by an ARO, he still is Lt for that player turn and you can keep spending his Tactical Awareness or Lt Orders. Isolation prevents you from accessing the Order Pool, which Tac Aware and Lieutenant Order are specifically not part of: - This Order is not included in the Order Pool, but is kept separate for the Lieutenant to use. The status and expenditure of the Lieutenant Special Order is Open Information.
I feel like there were conflicting answers - can a lieutenant spend the lieutenant order(s) it generated earlier that turn if it is currently isolated?
No, because it cannot receive orders from the Order Pool where the LT orders were placed. EDIT: OK, I was wrong. LT Orders don't go into the Pool, so I guess the isolated LT can use them after all.
Another thing that has been pointed out in the Spanish forum is that the Isolated State is not a Null State, so it is not applicable that the Lieutenant does not generate the Lieutenant Orders during the Count of Orders (the latter only happens if it is in Null State).
The Avatar has no Lt. Orders at all. As written in the strategos rule (sonce L1 and L2 have the same wording in this matter I screen captured L1) the Lt. Orders are converted into Regular orders
Yes, correct, but that is not the issue that is being discussed here. We all know that Lieutenant Orders transform into Regular Orders. The question is, does the Avatar generate the Lieutenant's Orders? Because if it does not generate them, whether or not they become Regular is irrelevant because there is nothing to convert.
As Scarecrow88 pointed out (and I assumed to be common knowlege in this thread) Loss of Lieutenant is triggered by the isolated Avatar and therefore no Lieutenant is present on the table during the order count.
Some potentially useful discussion of that issue here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/extremely-niche-question.37989/#post-367778
Now that I look at it, there is a serious discrepancy in the wording of the Loss of Llieutenant rule between the English and Spanish Rulebooks, which complicates the question we are dealing with here. In English it is said that it is mandatory «you must» choose a new lieutenant at the end of the turn in which you are in Loss of Llieutenant, while in Spanish it is optional: «puedes (= you can)». If you have to assign a new lieutenant there is no problem, because the next turn you will have a new lieutenant who will generate its lieutenant order (or orders) in the normal way, but ... If it is optional and you decide not to appoint a new lieutenant, there is a problem of what happens to the Lieutenant Orders of an Isolated Lieutenant. I think that before discussing anything else we should know if it is mandatory or optional. Edit and add: I have already asked the rules staff the question of mandatory or optionality.
As I've contended in an earlier thread, Strategos treats the converted Regular order into the Order Pool in strict singular form much like how Minelayer informs us that deployavle weapon in singular may be deployed, so whether we all know the Avatar's orders get converted is contested. As for an Isolated LT generating orders is concerned; this was answered earlier: no, isolated Avatars aren't ever LTs.
I think this was clarified by ijw in another thread, I do not remember in which one, for which I neither affirm nor deny. Regarding this, can you please indicate in which part of the rulebook or in what official clarification such a thing is said? It is not because I doubt your answer. The question is not mine, I'm only transmitting it from the Spanish forum and I want to be able to indicate to them what the answer is based on.
I don't believe he responded to my challenge on use of singular. Please refer to Isolated State. "Additionally, if the Isolated Trooper is the army's Lieutenant, then at the beginning of the player's next Active Turn the army enters a Loss of Lieutenant situation unless the state is cancelled before then." Which is also cross referenced in the Lieutentant Special Order rule. "If, during the Tactical Phase of the Turn, the Lieutenant is in an Isolated or any Null State (Unconscious, Dead, etc.) or has not been deployed on the gaming table, the Loss of Lieutenant rule will be applied." And dealt with in the Chain of Command rule " Requirements The player can only activate this Special Skill when the Lieutenant enters Isolated State or any Null State."