1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

ARO against a model dropping prone in cover

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Ouchies, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Ouchies

    Ouchies New Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    4
    If a model has cover and wants to deny an ARO to someone in LOS, can he declare Movement (Prone) and deny LOS/ARO? Which takes precedent in ARO generation, the model being activated or the model's first shortskill? What is the intent of the phrase, "begins it's short movement skill move already in the prone state" under prone movement?
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,837
    Likes Received:
    7,256
    Wolf likes this.
  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,051
    Likes Received:
    10,284
    You're going to get the same answer as on Facebook. ;-)
     
  4. Ouchies

    Ouchies New Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    4
    You potentially won't have LoF if the model "begins it's movement in the prone state".
     
  5. Ouchies

    Ouchies New Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yeah, I know right? I'm not taking crazy pills am I? That the wording is odd.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,051
    Likes Received:
    10,284
    It just means that your MOV is halved for the whole of that Move Skill. No more, no less.
     
    xagroth and chromedog like this.
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,089
    Likes Received:
    7,260
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence

    If the reactive trooper had LoF at any point during steps 1-3 then they'll get an ARO, so even if they go prone in Step 3 (Declaration of the First Skill) they'll still get an ARO from having LoF during Step 1 (Activation of the trooper).
     
    chromedog likes this.
  8. Ouchies

    Ouchies New Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    4
    My point is the term, "begins it's movement in the prone state" which implies that it precedes the previous LoS state the model was in when the short skill is ordered. It's misleading. I'm okay with the rationale that I think we all agree on (dropping to prone to deny LoS doesn't stop the ARO even though the ARO generation is later).
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,837
    Likes Received:
    7,256
    To be fair, I think this is a discussion all metas will have at some point.
     
    Andre82, inane.imp and Robock like this.
  10. Ouchies

    Ouchies New Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    4
    It's just something I stumbled upon and took pause over when rereading the interaction between prone and narrow gates. I don't think I ever noticed that phrase.
     
  11. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    "begins its movement" is not the same as "begins its order" and bear in mind that just activating a trooper with an order in LoF of an enemy grants that enemy an ARO, regardless of what you use that order to declare.
     
    Sabin76, inane.imp, xagroth and 7 others like this.
  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Step 1: Troop (standing, with LoF with one or more enemies) is activated. The order issued is "move Prone".
    Step 2: ARO gets declared.

    Since both players declare ARO and order effects at the movement point they chose (so you can select the starting movement position to draw your distance, while your target might prefer to use the finish position, for example because you are using an HMG and the enemy a Combi Rifle), your opponent can declare ARO against your model at the point it was activated, before going prone.
     
  13. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    343
    I'll throw this out just to boggle Ouchies.

    Player 1: I activate this model with an order. The first short skill is Move. The model will move from A to B crossing this 1" wide gap between the buildings. Moving from Total Cover to Total Cover. Do you have any ARO's?

    Player 2: I will ARO and Shoot with this model here who can see down the 1" gap when you are midway and without Cover.

    Player 1: My second short skill will also be Shoot and I will fire back at your trooper.

    Resolution: Everybody rolls dice.

    Bonus: If Player 1's trooper loses the Face to Face roll and also the subsequent Armor roll, where will it fall Unconscious?
     
  14. Ouchies

    Ouchies New Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    4
    Of course. LOS was attained at the gap.

    At the end of the movement, other side of the gap.

    My beef is with the term "begins it's short movement skill move already in the prone state", which implies the state it was in (standing) is circumvented and how, even though the term activation is used, you don't declare an ARO till a later step that needs LOS (which because of the "already" term, is a loop hole).

    It's a translation vagary that can be addressed by, "must begin it's short movement by dropping prone and entering the prone state". Which I think is the intent... To declare how the movement is measured, not to change the silhouette before AROs and give rules lawyers something weasel on.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    that distinction is important, particualrly in regards to TAG pilots and why you cant shoot the TAG on the order they dismount
     
    inane.imp and Balewolf like this.
  16. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    You need to look at the sequence of the order, a trooper activates, and generates any AROs at that point, before it declares the movement or goes prone, thats whats getting it jobbed.
     
    Kahlain and chromedog like this.
  17. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,089
    Likes Received:
    7,260
    Exactly, when you get to step 4 of the order expenditure sequence you check if any reactive models had LoF during steps 1-3, if so they get an ARO, even if you go prone immediately in step 3 when the first skill is declared they still get an ARO if they were visible when they were activated in step 1.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    You'll also note the different terminology for TAG pilots who apply the S2 profile for the WHOLE sequence.
    This retroactively prevents the TAG S6/7/8 profile from generating AROs.

    Without the call out to the whole sequence you could shoot the TAG the order the pilot jumps out, with it you cannot