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Are the Restrictive Link Teams a Design Mistake?

Discussion in 'Foreign Company' started by Todd, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    So, I initially attributed the lack of flexibility in FC's SoF link team options to the strength of Strategic Deployment. Holding an entire link team in reserve is huge, and not something you want to just sprinkle across an army (we'll just pretend that there aren't other ways to limit that access, or that it shouldn't really affect other SoF's being Wildcards, just Hannibal).

    Then I read Strategic Deployment, and saw that it doesn't do what Bostria said at all. Don't get me wrong, FD1 is great (FD2, if you take a Bolt), but not great enough to keep Hannibal's other two profiles or even the other SoF's from being Wildcards. Barring the explanation that Bostria just got it wrong, it seems likely that this was the way that rule worked at some point. If so, why not go back and rework the Fireteam composition?

    It's already been mentioned here on the forums, but when you look at the flexibility in Dahshat, FC comes off as extremely underwhelming. If they're not going to give that flexibility to the unique characters, it would have been nice to have seen it other places (for instance, Wildcard CSU's, or maybe some other "counts as" units).

    Yes, I know this was a problem/feature we saw with other NA2 armies. I wasn't a fan of it when those rules were released either. However, seeing Dahshat now gives me the sense that the armies were designed in isolation (maybe by different CB employees), or at least at different evolution points in the design process.
     
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  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think the fire team comps are intentionally narrow to incentivize you into taking more of the characters, after all, the sectorial is about them. I agree with you that its more of a blunder than boon, as I don't like running character heavy lists anyway
     
  3. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    I would love to take more of them. Just not all of them, at the same time, in the same link, and then not be able to reform that link if specific ones die before others. While there are single character options, they are really specific.

    When we're seeing the design style shift more towards allowing us to apply what we want where we want it, this seems really strange.
     
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  4. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    I think to a degree it has the opposite effect: as it turns out you can make much better FC list if you just don't use the SoF. Giving them all wildcard might have been a bit much, but then it's just annoying that you can't combine Laxmee with Valkyrie without any of the guys. TS not like it would create intense Combos. And yeah looking at the new Shasvastii where you can do basically whatever with the Über Sheskiin, it just doesn't make any sense and that's why it feels off.

    Maybe Todd is onto something with having different designers. It really looks like it. Sure it works like it does now, but it doesn't seem coherent with the others.
     
  5. Vijel

    Vijel Member

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    Personally i don't think it is that much of a problem. Also i don't think they all need wildcard. A couple more options would have been nice though.

    Examples for link options i would like to have:
    Valkyrie + Massacre Duo
    Hannibal + Valkyrie + Massacre Haris (I know you can kind of do this with one of the special fireteams but that blocks out a Securitate Core Fireteam.)
    Valkyrie or Massacre Duo with CSU
    Option for a Hannibal + Valkyrie + Massacre Special Core with Securitate or CSU (Therefore freeing up the Bolts for a defensive Haris with CoC.)

    Some of these options would have been cool.
    Altogether i think the characters are better fit for small links and i would have liked more options to spread them out over different fireteams.
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I like the characters, but I'd like to see some more options. Main restrictions concern Bolts and ORCs, with the former having no Core option beside the all-star Specials, and the latter being able to form full team only if taking at least Awicenna and Valkyrie (not that it's a bad option. Also, the lone Brawler could really use a Wildcard.
     
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  7. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, wtf is up with that lone brawler? Early yesterday, Army had the Anaconda Duo rules listed under it's profile, which was obviously wrong (and from Spiral Corps). It made me think they were going to have some linkable rule though, they just uploaded the wrong version. Today, the note is just gone, and the PDF definitely doesn't have a link option for them in FC.
     
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  8. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    The nice thing about WildCard is how clean and simple it is. I agree they all don't need it, but what we also don't need is more extremely specific links listed under a given profile. Visually, it's hideous. Also, less experienced players are going to screw it up, because they don't understand the nuances of the link restrictions. Even veteran players sometimes forget they've lost a lynchpin model mid-game. From a balance perspective, if you can already combine things in 11 different ways, and the 12th doesn't throw the game out of whack, the simpler but more permissive method should be used to convey this, even if it means allowing that 12th unintended option.
     
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  9. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, something does look off with that sectorial...
     
  10. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    I think they just threw him in so that the Sectorial has any MSV2. Otherwise the only option is MSV1 Bolt.

    Foreign looks pretty weak at first glance, and not just lore-wise.
     
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  11. Vijel

    Vijel Member

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    I agree with you it would definitely be more elegant with wildcard on all the characters but CB clearly wanted some restrictions so i would be ok with a middle ground.
    The examples i listed are not meant to all be added on top of the aldready existing ones. I just gave some exampels i thought were interesting options.
     
  12. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    It feels like a sectorial that was designed a long time ago. I draw issues with the only really usable core being Securitate/CSU. I think the biggest issue with it right now is the lack of any notable MSV, both the bolt and Brawler are locked into long range options that crumble to the hyper-aggressive spitfire/viral rifle/smg wielding negative mod troopers that just came out in this update. Couple this with a lack of sensor/sniffers and you have an entire sectorial that falls to pieces to 2 or more camo tokens
     
  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Brawler and Laxmee Wildcards, Hannibal and Valkyrie able to join any Haris, and it's done.
     
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  14. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Need something for Massacre too.

    I guess a rule like "Valkyrie can join any team with Hannibal" would be cool, adding to her bodyguard feel. Might create some weirdness with the limit of Harris or Fire teams, but I guess that could be worded correctly somehow.

    Strangely maybe it's just the new profile options like having Haris on the support weapon trooper, which just adds to the feeling that the restrictions just feel more off then they actually are.
     
  15. Todd

    Todd Well-Known Member

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    The cool thing is that with the way Wildcard is presented, they could still be WildCards, only limited to Fireteam: Haris.

    Why haven’t they streamlined that? It’s like we’re getting to watch CB as they try to figure out how they want fireteams teams to even work. Wildcard should be a skill, not a footnote. That way, they could put it in the main unit profile, or just specific profile load outs.

    Wildcard: Fireteam (allowed type here)

    Clean and simple.
     
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  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, currently FC is pretty much like the MO even post rework they are going to be considered a "don't use" faction. Similar issues, both have some major limitations on how you build a list for them and it really kills any incentive to play them.

    In FC case, you lack MSV, sensor, and DTW which makes it really hard to deal with Camo spam lists which with both TAK and Shas rework being new and popular is going to spell doom for anyone trying to play FC at a tournment.

    We should have wildcard on some units so you can build full 5 man teams for KTS, Bolts, Orcs using their full AVA + one wildcard. At the very least make the lone brawler a wildcard so we can make use of a 5 man link for an MSV 2 sniper. We need some way to deal smoke spam.

    Right know I struggle to find any advantages that this army has at all and yet I see a lot of glaring weaknesses.

    If you want to play with KTS, bolts, or Orcs then look else where because its not here. As for the soldiers of failure, don't waste your money buying them. They'll most likely be a disappointment on the tabletop.

    This isn't even like the Druze situation. Druze are very limited in what they can do but they compensate for that with fantastic link team flexibility and having all the tools you need to get any job done. That makes Druze a veteran players army. Ikari does one thing well, brute force, and its pretty good at it.

    FC, on the other had, I can't see anything it does well that is not also leaving it open to a ton of glaring weaknesses.

    Edit: This is probably too harsh on the FC. For the most part, ignore the soldiers of failure because most of their link options are just that, failures.

    A securitate link + some type of haris is probably the best bet for this army. It can be decent but over all it just feel really limited in what you can do. The best use of Hannibal is giving FD lv 2 to a bolts haris so you can start throwing some drop bears around. Thats pretty cool but I still feel like this army will have a lot of trouble vs camo heavy armies.
     
    #16 Death, Mar 29, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    It does seem unnecessarily harsh.

    Even with more flexible Fireteams I don't feel like we'd be pushing the "top tier".

    As it is, I'll certainly use Foreign Company for fun.
     
  18. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Okay, there is one thing that just bugged me about this:

    The special core for Orcs has up to three orcs+Avicenna+Valkrye. This does feel quite restrictive.

    However, orcs do have the fireteam core skill, so I can build a 5 orc team, right? This is not the same as StarCo with Riot grrls where I need Avicenna or Emily to be able to make a core of them.

    Also, I don't understand why they'd not allow ForCo Orcs to simply be joined by Valkrye or Avicenna. It would make it way easier to comprehend this mess
     
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  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Yes and no.

    Screen Shot 2019-03-14 at 10.18.08 AM.JPG

    ORCs do have Fireteam Core..... But AVA 4 :(

    So I guess you could have a 4 man fire team.
     
  20. Remnar

    Remnar Well-Known Member

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    Still better than Wu Ming team in Ikari with the "up to" 3 Orcs. At least you can lose an active shootout and not break.
     
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