Are core teams a trap?

ISS is very reliant on Kuang Shi, as defensive pieces, order batteries, and efficient offensive pieces, they're integral to the faction. Going without them is going to hamstring your capabilities.

Your list at the moment features too large an amount of order hungry troopers with limited order generation, including two troopers who don't contribute to your pool.

 

Buddy you're getting it confused, core fireteams aren't the over costed trap you've blundered into ISS is the trap.

 

ISS is fine...-ish. I disagree about KS. They are not essential. Those days are gone.

I can agree a little about core teams being a trap. I'm a fan more of 3-man core.

I also think everything in Yu Jing is mission dependent. It's difficult to make one list that can do most.

Edit. The list moved around on me but I made the duo you had into a 3-man core of Wu Ming and Zhanying.

3101
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GROUP 1 9
DEVA (Lieutenant, Triangulated Fire, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
DAKINI Tacbot Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 21)
DAKINI Tacbot (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15)
MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29)
SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 54)
ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25)
NINJA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
ZHÀNYING (Sensor, Triangulated Fire, Minelayer) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Madtraps / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 23)
GROUP 2 3 1 1
RUI SHI Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 11)
BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 8)
5.5 SWC | 300 Points
Open in Infinity Army

 

Personally I feel like you should probably build into a Core FT if you play any YJ sectorial, otherwise why not play Vanilla who can do no FTs way better?

 

That's why i very rarely use core teams anymore, especially expensive ones. Some 5 point dude with a chain rifle will ruin your day.

 

Yes

 

For me it would because I like the Deva and Duo of MBH. I just like them. But I get that point too. ISS just doesn't have the tools to get some jobs done.

 

Core Fire Teams aren't a trap, but like everything in list building you should always think about the mission and *why* you're using them. For missions where you need to move a number of models together they're great.

ISS is actually pretty well placed to use them*, as they have very cheap core teams available in the shape of Kuang Shi. A lot of great list archetypes use Kuang Shi links, as they give a powerful blob of board control and regular orders without much point investment.

If you're running a Su-Jian, backing it with a link of 4 Kuang Shi and a Celestial Guard Multi Sniper is a very effective way to get long-range shooting that the Su Jian doesn't really offer as well as a 20 point ARO that can cause some serious damage.

If you need to take and hold the table center, say for Frontline or an objective room mission, mixing some tougher models into a link is a very effective way to grab the objective room and hold it. At that point having sixth sense, shared tinbot buffs, and moving multiple heavy infantry to defend each other at close quarters can be the right thing to do.

If you need to move fast and attack or grab something in the enemy table half, that's when core teams are a trap. Taking an expensive five-man link on the offensive and moving it into the enemy DZ is a risky idea, as you'll often overextend it and leave it open to attack from multiple directions with your opponents best attacking tools. Wu Ming are tough, but there are lots of much cheaper single models (like a heavy shotgun Su Jian) who could take a whole Wu Ming team down. They're also much easier to lock down with ARO traps than single models you can drop as a reserve deployment choice. One missile launcher pointed at a fire lane a Wu Ming team has to move through will lock them down hard, and a Su Jian could just cautious move across it!

This is one of the reasons that playing vanilla is good for your sectorial skills, it teaches you how to effectively attack with individual models as they're the only things you've got. When all you have is the hammer of an hmg in a fireteam everything looks like a nail. When you come back to ISS from vanilla, you'll look through the lens of building on the strengths the sectorial offers that vanilla doesn't have. (Dakini, Sophotects, Linked tinbots, Fireteams, Higher AVA of certain units like TR bots etc).

* vs say, IA, who rely a little more on core teams to leverage any advantage over vanilla.

 

Well, Vanilla is probably a stronger faction. I love my ISS though, and have fun putting them on the table when I can.

There are plenty of fun things ISS can run that Vanilla can't: Hsien haris, Zhanying & tinbot combos, Dakini & Deva, Crane & Kuang Shi links, Sniper Kuang Shi links, Wu Ming links, Sophotects, AVA 2 Motorized Bounty Hunters, AVA 3 TR bots, Su Jian Duos etc.

 

You forgot to bring an EVO hacker so you're running around with a BS11 and 12 gunfighters.

 

Not to mention smoke, which is the big win from a Kuang Shi core link if you want to take a Rui Shi. If you don't want to bother with smoke, you're probably better off with a Lu Duan.

 

Here's a fun list, if you're looking for something ISS & different based around a Deva & Dakini Haris. Both groups have multiple "missile" units they can send off to do some damage. The first group can choose from buffing the Dakini and shooting, firing out the MBH warband duo or cybermasking the kanren and trying to slice something. The second can attack with the Lu Duan, Su Jian, Garuda or Miranda. There are a handful of specialists, and a bit of budget ARO for board control - 2 flash pulses, one sniper rifle and the Su Jian's panzerfaust.

This isn't reliable enough to take you to the top tables at a big tournament unless you're superhuman and it really clicks for you ... it's designed to let you field some really fun units and capitalize on some of the less commonly taken ISS choices. If you're aiming to have some fun games, paint some cool stuff and end up middle of the pack with some good stories, it should be fine.

I also mucked around with Sforza FTO buddying up with Miranda, there's some hipster mileage there. A red fury MBH in the duo would be great for some budget shooting and would let you take the Lu Duan out to free up points. You could also swap the Dakini paramedic for Xi to get some madtraps in.

 

"These are not the Kuang Shi you are looking for".

And yes! Very cool conversion.