1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Are Arjuna Pointed Correctly?

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by natetehaggresar, Dec 5, 2020.

  1. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    602
    Hey all,

    Like the title says are they pointed correctly? I'm not someone who reverse engineers points, but something just feels off about them, so for those who do reverse engineer points, do they look rightish to you?

    Looking at similar cross faction comparisons I can't help but feel like they compare very poorly. (I know cross faction isn't apples to apples).

    Looking at the marksman rifle Psi-Cops from 0-12 the Psi-Cop has MSV 1, +1 BS, +3 bts, shock immune, a B2 nano pulsar, and a heavy pistol for 25 points.

    The Arjuna has 6-2 move, +1 phys, +1 wip, +2 arm, shock marksman, courage, and a breaker pistol for 28.

    Is 6-2 move really that expensive or am I missing something, I feel like the Psi-Cop is the overall better profile for fewer points?

    Looking at Kamau, and Karhu, which seem to be similar troops, mimetic shooters seem similarly poor for Arjuna.

    It almost looks to me, like they have roughly the cost of the Kiran bot baked into their base profile, then have the kiran bot cost tacked on again on top of it.

    Seeing as how it seems some point errors sneaked in to N4, such as the Vostok which originall costed too little, and the Zondnautica which originally costed too much, see https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/first-review-of-n4-profiles-changes-and-opinions.37788/ I thought it was worth seeing if the Arjuna looked right?
     
  2. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    As someone who enjoyed semi-reverse engineer points on profiles and enjoyed following fellow forum-users who were far better at it than me, I’m quite confident that the point formula is all but dead.

    There are just too many profiles that doesn’t make sense point wise and appear to just cost what ever CB feels like they should cost in their respective faction.
     
  3. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    602
    @Zewrath I can see that, but I can also see the potential for new confounding variables which haven't been worked out. Hackable discounts, factional modifers for abilities, floating discounts/taxes for skill combinations. But as said, Arjuna just *feel* very expenseive for what you get.
     
    TheDiceAbide likes this.
  4. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    332
    The Arjuna is super weird. On one side, he seems to be designed to move up, push a button, and bunker down with his bots to deny space. On the other, he also wants to be a fast active turn gunfighter with a mim(-3) spitfire or shock marksman rifle who uses the bots as a secondary threat.

    He seems too expensive and a little too frail for me to want to use him for area denial, and has too much competition in both OSS and vanilla to be a great choice for an active fighter.

    He's fun and versatile and I want to use him more but I have a hard time fitting him in my lists due to the price tag.
     
    xagroth, Ashtaroth and RolandTHTG like this.
  5. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    517
    Comparing the Arjuna and Deva profiles, the Arjuna definitely seems around 4 points (if not more) over priced. I wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that multiple wounds (and NWI) seem to have been reduced in cost a little.
     
  6. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    NWI has not been reduced in price. Devas cost almost the same as in N2
     
  7. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    517
    I think multiple wounds in general has been decreased in price. Devas gained number 2 and wildcard, so it was probably only 1 or two points. A bunch NWI models in Steel phalanx got cheaper.
     
    RolandTHTG likes this.
  8. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Wildcard (and other linkability options) does not cost points. Number 2 is also 0 or close to.

    Steel Phalanx got cheaper because it is Steel Phalanx. ARM got cheaper, and real multiwounds, yes. NWI did not get cheaper. NWI with Shock Immunity might be cheaper though.
     
  9. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    66
    there seems no place for arjuna in any list .
     
    The Holy Knight and Methuselah like this.
  10. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1,110
    the "formula" died mid-late n3, CB cheated on it a few times in the past edition, and looks like in this edition there are a lot of profiles that doesn't follow it.

    The arjuna... mimetism is an expensive skill in this edition, I think it went up one extra point, and MI pays a bit more for it than LI. Also, looks like arm 3 on MI is also something "premium", so they pay a bit too much. Also add that BSG has increased in cost this edition. Lastly, MI didn't get discount with the edition change (most of them went up in points), so... my bet is that the cost is intended, just overpriced as a lot of MI out there
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    10,126
    Likes Received:
    12,622
    While I agree with that the points formula has seen a massive increase in number of profiles not following, going from a very small number to several profiles, the Arjuna follows patterns I've seen in a majority of profiles. I have noted that MSV1 seems to be cheaper on certain profiles, but Psi-Cops seem to be paying the old/full price on it
     
  12. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    332
    Now that it think about it, wouldn't the Ajurna be pretty fun in Armory or Panic Room? Cybermines trigger through walls, so if anything hackable even gets close to the door they need to do a WP-3 or take a double action dam15 trigger that screws with their tech.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,029
    Likes Received:
    14,355
    A Cybermine's Trigger Area is the same as a regular Mine's. So no, they don't trigger through walls.
     
  14. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    66
    I could take arjuna only if cybermines were a threat against nonlof opponents too.
     
    The Holy Knight likes this.
  15. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2018
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    75
    I am not sure they are over pointed. I feel comparing them to a deva is wrong. The issue I feel is any and all solo non camo models are hard to justify with how fire teams works now. An Ajura is a swiss army knife that likes going up the board in a game that tends to like very specially build units. Ajura's may be able to fire fight with most things not in a link team and push buttons but niether of those are particularly unique and better options can be bough for its cost
    Ajura SMR with 2 bots is 36 vs Dasyu FO 36 vs Dart 34 vs any Naga vs Yadu HRL 32.
    If you are in vanilla then there are Myrmidon spitfires 30 or any thorakitai.

    Ajura bonus is if you need a multi roll model: I am looking for a corridor defender I can drop into suppression and survive the hit, then mid to late game fight his way up the board to press a button.
    If you want that then Ajura works well, the arm 3 and mimetism -3 lets him survive while moving or in suppression, this will make him ARM 6 and -6 to shoot if in suppression and cover. The bots can be placed to watch his back or cover other approaches. The gun choices will let him fight when moving up, SMR have a good enough range band or you could go spitfire. The move of 6 really helps as that is an extra 2 inches so you can get to cover easier or get into your good range faster. D charges and specialist operative is there just so he can do ITS stuff.

    I just find that for his points I will take more specialized models and cheapening him may not change that.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation