Anyone Feeling like they are playing ISS as Vanilla?

I still frequently use Sun Tze and post Total Immunity update he really is hilarious. You want to pair him to take advantage of units that benefit the most from optimal placement or a surprise factor. Things like slamming down a Neurocinetics Yan Huo last, or a Pheasant MSR in optimal position to snipe shit, or placing the Haidao MSR in the worst possible spot for your opponent to deal with it.

Hulang also benefits alot from being able to outdeploy the enemy.

 

Well I'd never do that in Vanilla, so no. But i'm not a fan of Kuang Shi no matter the benefit. Do you really need Sun Tze? Maybe you need to just take a break out of doing the same thing all of the time. Try doing a Crane+Celestial link. Wu Ming link is the opposite of what you have. You might find you do just as well by going quality over quantity. I think that's where the strengths lay in Sectorals.

For vanilla try out Shaolin. 5pt guys that come with their own smoke.

When you have Sun Tze in ISS do you find yourself using all of your Command Tokens? You will certainly have more need for them in Vanilla. More chances to do things like have 4 guys lay down mines then go into suppressive fire.

 

My answer is no. Because you’ll learn soon that there is no “Net-Listing” with Infinity. I can give you a list that works well for me but it could be horrible for you. Even if you use the same tactics because you are going against different people with different terrain with different missions. I can tell you things you could possibly do to make the best use of Sun Tze but that’s about it.

Just think about what he brings to the table

• Extra command token
• ability to make then enemy put not hold back figs
• able to hold two of your own
• anyone can use the Lt. order
• Now a great defensive shooter in the back by going into suppression with the Multi-rifle.

The things you do in ISS are almost the same but now you can use them on figs you didn’t have before. you just have more troops to do it with now.
Guilang and Zhencha are going to be able to all put down a mine using a command token.
You’ll be able to see exactly were from the start to bring in a Tiger Soldier.
You can use a much cheaper doctor who can go one way while the engineer goes another.
Putting Guilang, Zhencha, Ninja and Daofei all into suppressive fire at once.

 

I'm actually curious now about the Marksman Sun Tze. Now that he's effectively ARM/BTS 3 instead of 2. With the Multi-rifle he adds Shock to AP and can go into suppressive fire with BS14. With the MSR seems good too. BS14 with DA+Shock, Mimetisim, MSV1, NWI.

 

No Mimetism on V2.

 

By putting your Kuang Shi in a fireteam you are pushing yourself to a more vanilla-like composition. Fireteams are a unique and powerful ability that sectorials gain access to, but a Kuang Shi team doesn’t leverage most of their benefits. I would strongly recommend that you write some lists that don’t use Kuang Shi at all if you want to explore the strengths of the sectorial and make lists that wouldn’t translate directly into vanilla Yi Jing.

 

Netlisting doesn't work very well here, player tactical skill matters a whole lot more than 40k or WarmaHordes (there, I think the primary player skill is 'operational', that is, choosing the 'perfect' army list).

But it is fun to hear from people how they use the different tools. For example, a lot of people poop on the Ninja and Tiger Snipers. At least before @Daemon of Razgriz pointed out that you can shoot people in the back with them, which makes their BS and lack of visors much less important. I mean, who looks for cover from behind?!?

And the sharing 'how do you use X unit' is why I post army lists.

 

Well that's sad but I think the Sniper might be worthwhile. Kind of hard to compete with Lunah, Pheasant, or Knauf.

 

It's funny how both TI and Marksmanship X has changed so much that the old load-out for SunV2 is almost better than the new ones :D

 

There is no netlist you can brainstorm around. You build lists to mission parameters and there's like 20 something missions. Pick a mission then build your list around it.

Personally I suggest you just play more before worrying too much about using Sun Tze. He's a model that requires deep knowledge of the game to get the most out of.

If it helps you though this is a list I ran for Power Pack recently


Yu Jing
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 1 4
SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
GŬILÁNG Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

GROUP 2 2 4 3
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Multispectral Visor L1, Marksmanship LX) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

5 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

Hey OP!

I can relate to having trouble with ISS, particularly when I first started to use them. I am having more success now, and am far more competitive than I was.

Couple of things I'd advise while you're getting used to them:

- Run a ninja specialist, with primary objective of pushing buttons. (KHD is best and cheapest. Though I much prefer AHD) These are so efficient for button pushing and hard to counter that they simply keep you in the game better than any other model in the faction in my opinion.

- Drop troop. In my opinion drop troops only ever win you games, never lose you games. ISS have a real hard time sometimes kneecapping opponent (with exception to Su-Jian) it's hard to really get into their back line and tornado through. This is what this guy will do for you. Also experiment with putting him on suppression instead of pushing him to his death. Garuda in suppression is - 9 to engage, can prove to be a real hassle.

**One or both work well with Sun Tzu as his Lt order mitigates their absence from your pool.

On Sun Tzu particularly, take the multi rifle. for 60+ points he has to work, maybe not turn 1, but he has to eventually push up the board and play a role. He is very survivable and suppression fire really double down on that strength of his.

*Note I have had good success using V2 to coordinate with other models to take out ARO pieces that my opponent set ups. Total immunity means he can shrug off any weapon type and is unlikely to go down in 1 ARO, as well as having good odds to win the fire fight. This is particularly nice in combination with Dakini HMG, Pheasant/Lunah snipers or Su Jian's Panzerfaust.

Regarding your initial complaint of ISS feeling like Vanilla, that is largely due to your reliance on your KS core. That core is close to a trap in my opinion. It really does blind you to many other options available within the faction. If you want reliable smoke launcher and MSV2. Run the KS controller in a Crane link(unique to ISS).

Here is a list i wrote for you to try look at:

Imperial Service
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 1
SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65)
GARUDA Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 22)
XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT (Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
KǍNRÈN Minelayer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt, Sniffer / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 27)
DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Multispectral Visor L1, Marksmanship LX) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

GROUP 2 1
NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)

3 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army




CORE LINK : Crane Agent, Xi Zheng, KS controller

Overall, do not over extend turn 1. Just focus on taking out enemy ARO/midfield camo, and using smoke to cover dakini so it can push a button - you wont always be able to do all those things, but at least it gives you a goals to work with.

Turn 2 and 3 are up to you :)

** couple of combos worth noting**

- Hold Pheasent sniper in reserve 9/10 times, and use to counter deploy big baddy and lean heavily on MMLx - even better with Nimbus. Also, note that Missile Launcher is - 3 past 40 inches, and they are very common in ARO link teams.
** Don't forget your free agent ability, if you need the ninja in the main pool, just move this guy out to make room.

-Kenran deploy as an AHD to lure enemy TO/Camo Killer hackers. Don't bother deploying the sniffer with your minelayer ability, unless you want to discourage enemy camo from an area. Instead use him as bait and then drop sniffer in active turn, sensor with your Crane and mop up with your Rui Shi.

- Don't be afraid to drop your KS into repeater state to increase your ninja's threat range, otherwise put em on a flank to guard against drop troops, and let him slowly waddle up the table on the side.

glhf

 

You do know that you have to inform your opponent if you're running multiple combat groups, even if no models from a group are on the table, right? So not only does your opponent now know you have a Ninja somewhere, but they can also spend a command token to restrict your order usage on the first turn, with no real upside on your part. Moreover, you then have to spend a command token of your own to even get the Ninja into your primary group before you can even spend orders on it.

Pheasant sniper is just bad.

And running the Crane as a three man core is just a waste. Honestly, I would strongly recommend against ever running that list.

 

I agree, the groups are awkward at best, and you could drop the Kenran and go LI, or 14 orders. However the intent was to highlight synegies ISS offer, whilst incoperating the Garuda and Ninja.

As far as the Pheasent and three man Crane link, I disagree and that's cool

 

The Pheasant sniper is actually pretty good as a stand alone piece post Marksmanship changes.

As it is I've been enjoying it abusing coordinating MMLX with Lunah to crack open defensive link teams, also using him to coordinate orders with a Haidao MSR hiding behind a smoke screen to do the same job.

It'd be really nice if the Bao weren't ass so you had some good link options, but you can play it decently without a link.

 

The combo itself might be potent, but I still feel you pay too much for the Phoenix's scattered kit. Getting into position without a marker state or ablative wound also sounds like it'd be a pain in the ass. I'll have to consider giving it a shot though.