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Any advice against Hassassin Bahram?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by madcore, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. madcore

    madcore Member

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    Hey Guys,

    Sorry for the constant flow of newbies questions but what can I do, I am trying to get better, so getting info is required. I am fighting Hassassin for the first time this Friday, I still don't know what will be the mission but I still would like to know anything that might help me fight them.

    So any advice, tips or tactics are more than welcome.

    Tks for the help.
     
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Are you going to use Vanilla or Sectoral?

    In my experience with Hassasn is to expect 2 troops, Fiday and Mutts.

    For Fiday I actually don't necessarily recommend a bio-visor. Seems that by the time you can use it, it's too late. But a Bao with Bio+Xvisor is not a bad troop. I do recommend a Lt. he can't take out easily like a Heavy OR the Zhanying with 6th sense and can't be surprised by the Fiday. Minelayers are also good for this. This would be a time I'd use the Daoying MSR with minelayer. Also a liberto "Guard". Be careful of them doing a laying of a mine first and then coming around a corner to shoot.

    For mutts. I like the LIberto Minelayer again just for being a speed bump if anything. I really don't care if he's isolated or anything. He's just there to lay down mines and die or clear out mines and die. Also, try putting down something last that they will all need to go toward like a TR bot. Can also do things like using a Forward deploy troops as bait and then long range taking it out. A good "Bait" trooper is the Kanren with Madtraps. With the Holos that's 5 different things he will have to deal with.

    In general, Hassasin do have camo and mimetisim so it can be worthwile to have at least some MSV.
     
  3. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I would suggest MSV2s and TO camo if you have access to them. Mutts are really good, but an MSV2 ARO piece can go a long way taking them out when the start running forward (since they can't just throw smoke to cover themselves). And since HB lacks any MSV2, having your own smoke to cover the advance/shoot them is really nice.

    I also like the idea of bringing CoC and a resilient Lt., since their assassins are powerful. Daoying are nice if you are playing vanilla... Actually, you could pair it with a Hac Tao EO and tick all boxes maybe.
     
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  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I forgot to mention smoke as well. Also, as @Joametz mentioned, they don't have much MSV themselves. They have Govads with MSV1. But i hardly ever see them used.

    As far as his fireteams, the most popular is the Muyib. So watch out for grenade launcher. Don't pack your guys in too much. Next is the Ghulam team. Either way also watch out for Leila Shariff. She's a killer hacker.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    ISS: Kanren or Sforza as decoy LTs. Ninja, Kanren or flanking Garuda to deal with Mutts. Linked Wu Ming LGL (or linked CG LGL if points are short but SWC isn't) is also a good idea.
    IA: Daoying LT. Zhencha or flanking Liu Xing to deal with Mutts
    Vanilla: Any if the above. Add Tigers, Daofei and Guilang to list. You want Stealth or flanking badly against Mutts in general.

    Remember that Zhanying and Daoying are immune to both Shock and Viral.

    Stick a mine close to the LT (or close to the thing you want to seem like your LT, such as another mine in vanilla)
     
    #5 Mahtamori, Feb 25, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  6. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    As mentioned above, the FIday and the Ghazi are the most threatening elements. The important thing about Fidays is that you don't want to overreact to them. It's very easy to have your entire army focus in on dealing with the Fiday, only to be gunned down by a Muyib link that you should have been paying more attention to. Instead, just focus on minimizing the damage the Fiday can do, and then removing it before it can do more. Marker Lts like the Daoying and Daofei, and marker units in general, are great against the Fiday because the Fiday can't hurt them without revealing itself, allowing you to strike back. Mad traps, mines, and beefcake HI that can shrug off a Fiday attack and strike back with template weapons all make its job of disruption a lot harder to do. When you know a Fiday is on the way, you want to position your units in a way that will make spending orders on it as inefficient as possible. If you can trick your opponent into over-committing to a Fiday, you can turn it against them and make the rest of their army suffer for it.

    Ghazi are just overpowered and stupid. MSV ARO pieces and mines are how you have to deal with that. Unfortunately, you're just stuck having to kill the damn things. They're frustrating, but not insurmountable. HIs that can enter marker states should always end their turns as such when Ghazi are nearby.
     
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  7. madcore

    madcore Member

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    For the moment I have started learning the game with ISS, so basically they are all I know...
     
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Then as mentioned a couple Kanren can be great for luring Mutts. If you are going second you just put a holo right in the open and then a Bao Sniper covering it.

    Good Lt. could be Hsien with Zhanying Haris. The Zhanying have Sixth sense and bioimmunity and can even take a Madtraps too. Sensor won't work in-directly but they still get +6 to discover rolls in line of sight.

    A core of Bao + Pheasant would be good for looking through smoke and all that. Rui Shi is also great.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    MedTraps can be used to block melee access to the LT, forcing the attack to be shooting or not assassinating turn 1. Be mindful that suiciding Muttas or Ayyar/Yasbir Holoechoes will be able to remove the MadTraps.
    Kuang Shi are a less failure prone alternative.
     
  10. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    Not a Yu-Jing player myself but as someone who has been playing Hassassins almost exclusively for a year I thought I would kick in my two cents! MSV2 is absolute poison for us and is easily the hardest thing to deal with since we rely so heavily on smoke to get Ghazi and our fireteams into positions where they can do damage.

    I would bring a Bao Sniper and a Rui Shi if you can, provided you can get them into defensible positions. Often what I have to do against MSV2 troops, especially linked ones is I'll have to dedicate my Fiday to disrupting that. If you can deploy them in such a way that you have all your angles covered, the impersonator is going to have a tough time and will likely have to settle for trading for it's own points at most.

    I'm not sure how you like to play and what fireteams you prefer but from a HB perspective, a defensive Core team with the Bao with Rui Shi backup plus a punchy Haris for making plays would be the ISS list I would like to see the least. Just be proactive about eliminating Ghazi!
     
  11. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

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    Rui Shi is a must - murders all Ghazis just by looking at them and eliminates aro ghulams with shock ammo so the great Haqq doctors cant do anything. Also our trusty robot is a NIGHTMARE for muyib/asawira haris.
    Try to set up your bots (baggages and servants), and kuang shi to block any way for fiday to get into your DZ and to throw discovers at him.
    If you use droptroops or Su Jian, wait until second round, so when Ghazis leave the enemy deployment you can easily get to their order pool.

    Get creative with Kanren - mask as a Hsien and put it into unsafe place as a bait for Fiday - Kanren can contest the single die CC fight with him or just answer with a chaincolt to trade.

    Protect your sophotect at all costs, you would need her to fix your troops from Ghazi rampage.
     
  12. madcore

    madcore Member

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    Thank you for your input. I was actually considering a Kanren diguised as a Hsien this morning, glad to see my ideas are on the right track.
     
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  13. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    As Anka, not a Yujing player but Hassasin :D so, some advices:

    If you can choose the iniciative do it. No matter the Scenario you are playing. Most of hassasin players include the two fiday, regular one with mines and the character Hussein and if they can't go first loose a lot of efectivity. Only if you are really sure that your rival haven't include the fidays you should think about go second.

    Rui Shi, as other said before, is a "natural killer" against hassasin. If you can put him marksmanship targets, like Muyibs or "Muttas" loose part of his game value, because they can't activate dogged.

    I really don't suggest you use the Hac Tao ML as ARO piece against Muttas, you will expose a very expensive unit in order to try stop five points guy. Even if you kill all of them the loose of the surprise momentum is enough to the hassasin players take adavantage of this.

    The passive tools like crazy-koalas, madtraps, mines... are good but if the hassasin player knows what he is doing probably nothing of this will be enough, more if he uses Yasbir with Holo L2, but of course, deal against deployable equip is always a waste of orders for the enemy. And this is always a good strategic choice.

    Becareful if he puts all the "muttawiaha" in one group, without regulars orders. Probably he is trying to make you confident in he can't reach you with the "muttawiaha" in the first turn, so you place your ARO pieces in some way, more "exposed" or "more cover", but if he expend 3 tokens to converts irregulars orders in regulars, he could go until your deployment area and made some big troubles. Allways take regular orders from the "muttawiahas" group, from the "most regulars amount" if they are some.


    Don't place your troups in line, avoid the light shot gun template from the fidays or mines. Deploy your troups in a manner which allow have LoS between them at least one with another one. In this way you force the fiday to use the smoke (one order less to make you harm, two if he reimpersonate the fiday).

    Use troups like g:servitors to place them in front of your "VIPS" troups, in order to denny the fiday the direct option of go into CC, this don't protects you against the mines, but made the live of the fiday more complex.

    In your turn most of the times is better to go away from the fiday than try to discover him. In your ARO always wait if you are well place and your rminiatures take care of the others back and is the first half order, except of course with the expendables units like g:ghosts or g:servitors, in this case make always "discover", at least you can declare engage with this expendable troups. If you are lucky you will do and later if the electric pulse will have succes you will have a lot of fun, if not at least will be a waste of one order to the enemy.

    Becareful on Asawiras Haris. They could look like "nothing to worry about" but they are something so good as fiday or muttawiaha.

    Funny thing, Fiday are more dangerous in vainillas as they are in hassasin because Saladinno.

    Best of lucks!!
     
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  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The problem with disguised as Hsien is that your opponent knows he's going to be hard to bring down with a Fiday. He may go for your specialists instead. That's what I would do if I were him. Go for the things you can kill easily first.

    Also, if you use a Kanren as a Hsien, who is going to be the Lt.? You're not going to want another Hsien. 2 Hsien or also a Crane Lt. is a dead giveaway one is fake. Now if you make it a lone Celestial Guard on his own, that's a juicy target he knows he can take down. Then you can actually have Hsien Lt.

    As, others have mentioned, the Rui Shi is always a good choice. Even more with a hacker to buff it.
     
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  15. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    yu jing was my first faction and hassassins were my second so I've seen this match up on both sides.

    There's a lot of good advice here. I'll add that if you're playing with the current ITS season rules, then keep in mind that your opponent might bring Ragiks instead of or in addition to a Fiday. With the ability to AD4 without placing a template, Ragiks are more attractive than usual. If you see an evo rem or a regular hacker, that could be a good sign your opponent may be looking to drop them in, but even without anything to jump assist, Ragiks can still cause a lot of damage if they walk onto a board edge.

    Also, if you do go REM or HI dominant, make sure you have a plan for Barids and 8 point repeater REMs. While they're not nomad or aleph levels of scary, between pitchers and repeater remotes Bahram can get relatively decent repeater coverage for a low investment and the Barid is a strong hacker for its cost. It's also a common lt. so it could easily have a lt order for throwing that pitcher or trying to hack something.

    MSV2 is a strong counter to mutts, but if your opponent is bringing 5 man ghulam they'll have Leila who is a killer a hacker. Barids also come in killer hacker and white noise through a repeater can make short work of a rui shi or a bao haris if you leave it too exposed.
     
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  16. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Luckily for him only HD Plus have access to white noise.
     
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  17. madcore

    madcore Member

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    I guess I will have to learn the hard way :)
     
  18. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Just remember to play the objective. Folks get all hysterical about Ghazi and Fiday, but the trick is, really, to focus objectives over Killing.

    For the Fiday:
    Deploy, as others have said, abit more spread out than usual. Well placed deployables help mitigate the paths an assassin can (or should) take. If you're really forward thinking, preemptively defending a route to an objective is a strong play. The strongest HB players often use Fiday for zone holding and delayed assassination runs (this is similar to Ragik). As was said, don't over react to this. Just mind your spacing and avenues of approach. Hunting them down is usually wasteful order expenditure. They die pretty easily.

    For the Ghazi:
    Bring MSV2, (which you should generally be doing anyways), and pop them from range in ARO or from range on the way to an objective. If they're cowering out of LoS, you have two options.
    1. Ignore them until after scoring a nearby objective, and then set an MSV2 ARO or root them out with spec fire/disposable hunter.
    2. If, (and only if) they are covering an objective, pop them from range first with spec fire.
    Remember that they'll be moving toward the closest target or wasting orders not doing so. Make your opponent make a choice.

    The main concerns I have when using my Yu Jing vs HB are threefold:
    1. Surprisingly strong infowar. Repeaters, remotes, and especially the Barid/Leila are no joke
    2. Ayyar - They could be anywhere or anyone, and are absolutely devastating, often forcing an entire shift in game plan. (KILL them quick)
    3. The Asawira/Muyib Link - Another reason for MSV2, as this monster ghosts up-field with smoke and specialists, while toting regeneration and frenzy, (which doesn't trigger until the link is broken - pray you have a plan when this happens, because they can still be a whirlwind of death)

    If you focus on capping objectives early on, (or set yourself up for late game success in those types of delayed scoring missions), HB will have a hard time catching up. Once you have a tangible lead, start decimating your opponents order pool with MSV2 and whatever other tanks you brought. This will limit late game effectiveness of Fiday and Ragik, not to mention the 3 real worries.

    It's probably important to note that Daylami with LSG and Panzerfausts are really common. Treat them as annoying speed-bump - preferable to kill with ARO. If this isn't possible, just deal with them as they venture too close.

    3-4 Daylami + 3-4 Mutts means your first turn is about scoring points and forcing a play from your opponent. You may take a hefty initial strike, but Yu Jing is astounding when it comes to weathering this. (multi -wound units, msv2, deployables, and all types of camo allow this).

    More important than anything; have fun!

    For the record; I play both Haqqislam (Primary faction) and Yu Jing (Mostly vanilla, but I love to dabble with ISS when I'm bored).
     
    #18 oldGregg, Feb 26, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
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  19. madcore

    madcore Member

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    Thak you for your input, all great advice. I will for sure be haviong fun. Playing a new opponent and the more I have, the more experience I will get. What do you think about having a lt like Sun tze? Of course I can go for a hsien, or a crane if I want a thougher one. Just thinking that a lone celestial guard is a nesay target and I rarely have more than 2 normal celestial guard so guessing the LT should not be too complicated.
     
  20. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played with Sun Tze, but I absolutely love Saladin. Against HB, if you bring him, make sure you have a CoC on deck. Such an obvious target is hard to resist for a lot of players. You can always follow other advice on this thread and protect him with mines etc, but I find that sort of thing to be a real crap shoot. A lot of players worry about the obvious Lt, but I think it is unfair to assume you can reliably hide your Lt choice anyways. A good player will know, or at least have a good guess. For me, it comes down to how much I want to do with a Lt. If you're looking to use the Lt. Order/Strategos/HI power than you probably want a CoC anyways. If you're going for cheap, other targets are often juicier or more critical for you're opponent.

    Sun Tze and Saladin are rad, but you kind of have to build a list around Strategos/Advanced Command to make the points worth it. Against HB, I would personally opt for a different Lt, but you can make it work.
     
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