Antipodes suprise attack

Suprise attack applies to Face to Face rolls only.

If its 2 normal rolls then it wont apply.

Also: Dont try and Suprise vs a Bezerker

 

One comment : it's not written in the antipode rules that the one making the CC attack is the spearhead, so the antipode targeted by the CC attack should be able to CC attack and make it an opposed roll

The rule : In Close Combat, only one of the Antipodes may make a CC Roll, but that one Antipode benefits from a MOD of +1 B and +1 Damage per other member of the Pack in base to base contact with the target, and in Engaged state.

"One of the antipode" not the spearhead

 

The bullet point you are quoting just mean you cannot target more than one member of the pack during a CC with a pack, no splitting your burst (MA4)

Antipode first action is move
Then ARO CC attack and target declaration
Antipode second action is CC attack, the one performing the CC attack is chosen here. If RAW are correct, then the active player can choose which antipode perform the attack (always have been played like this in my meta).

Per RAW nothing.

Either the spearhead is missing in the bullet point I quoted (and then the rules need to be corrected) or the spearhead is some useless remnant of some previous rule (and should be eliminated to avoid misunderstanding).


The only other place where the spearhead keyword is used is in coordinated order and the wording for CC attack with coordinated order mention spearhead.

CC attack from antipode pack : In Close Combat, only one of the Antipodes may make a CC Roll, but that one Antipode benefits from a MOD of +1 B and +1 Damage per other member of the Pack in base to base contact with the target, and in Engaged state.

CC attack from coordinated order : In Close Combat, only the Spearhead trooper will perform the CC Roll, getting a MOD of +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each friendly trooper participating in the Coordinated Order engaged with the adversary.


From a fluff POW, Antipode pack are some kind of hive mind, so I feel like no designated team leader (like a trooper with his G:Sync in CC) make more sense

 

We know that Antipodes function the same as a Coordinated order not the same as G-Sync. This is because if a Assault pack participates in a co-ordinated order the Spearhead of both is the same: there arent two different concepts"an Antipodes Spearhead" and a regular Spearhead. To have the same concept (Spearhead) perform differently in two similar circumstances (simulataneously activating multiple Troopers) is, to put it mildly, needlessly complex and confusing.

So I would be very surprised if you can do what you describe.

From a Gameplay POV your B3 Surprise Attacking marker state death machine is already hard enough to deal with, so limiting it in the same way as Coordinated orders make the most sense.

 

They have bit of both. For example they must stay in ZoC from each other which is not a coordinated order requirement but more like G:Sync (or FT)

Yet I would like an answer on how rules are miswritten :
- either spearhead is useless and shouldn't be mentioned
- or only the spearhead perform the CC attack and it should be corrected

 

The text under MA Lvl5 suggests the latter:

Martial Arts L5 ARO against Coordinated Orders and Antipodes
During the Reactive Turn, in a Face to Face Roll against the Spearhead of a Coordinated Order or Antipodes if the trooper with Martial Arts L5 declares a CC Attack his B will always be equal to the B of his adversary.

 

Does it? That could easily be "Spearhead of a Coordinated Order" OR "Antipodes."

 

Yeah, but as the header doesn't contain the word "spearhead", to me it suggests that during the active turn there must always be a spearhead for Antipodes.

For CC I don't think that there is any difference anyways - it works the same for Coordinated Orders, Antipodes, G-Synced or Fireteams.
And all of them have their "spearhead" (or controller or fireteam-leader).
Maybe they included it because they thought they might introduce Antipodes with a BS attack (with a B>1) some day. Then it would be relevant to have one.

 

Hmm. Spanish.

Artes Marciales N5 ORA frente a Orden Coordinada o Antípodas

Durante el Turno Reactivo, cuando en una Tirada Enfrentada el poseedor de este Nivel 5 declare Ataque CC dispondrá de una R igual a la R de la tropa designada como Punta de Lanza.

where it just says “Spearhead”. (I have no idea why the heading won’t paste.)

 

G Sync is different, the way it's set up any Trooper can perform the CC. It does not have a Spearhead (or Team Leader).

Whereas Antipodes have a Spearhead but it appears (RAW) that any Trooper can perform the CC. I think the fact that Antipodes have a Spearhead suggests that the Spearhead peforms the CC.

 

If the CC declaration is not limited to the Spearhead model then declaring that a particular Antipode is the Spearhead is literally pointless.

 

There is no restriction for just one reason.
In Active Turn, you MUST roll with the Spearhead.
In Reactive Turn, you can roll with whomever you want.
In both cases, you get the same bonus.

 

Edit: Somehow ended up in the very wrong thread

 

You've got rules or a rulling to support that ?

The first thing I did was looking for a spearhead entry in the rules that could say that but there is none.

Which mean, as I said aboven that either the CC part of the antipode rules mus be corrected (to be roughly the same as coordinated order) OR the spearhead part must be erased (because it's useless).
Unless someone find an official rulling saying which one it is, we have no way to know which one is true

Can @HellLois come and decide ?

Because there are no RAW or previous rulling supporting one side or the other we could keep discussing it for quite some time without any result

 

Where do the rules say that you must roll with the Spearhead?

 

Because otherwise it has no reason to exists!

Anyway, way better than the N2 Antipode silliness, but still a mess...

 

That it's not a convincing argument. That can as easily mean the rules that the spearhead bulletpoint should be removed.

 

This is a bit of a quirk, but unlike with Coordinated Orders, you're not allowed to remove Spearhead markers from Antipodes until they are removed from the table, so bring lots of them!