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Aleph in N4

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    To those that are not up to date N4 is coming and is scheduled for Summer of 2020.

    This tread is created to discuss Aleph and its (her?) sectorials in the upcoming edition, Suggestions, ideas, wishlist's, opinions, things that work, things that do not work all are welcome if done in a polite manner.

    Now the most basic rule of the thread, be polite this is not a thread to be dissolved in arguing who has the correct ideas and who has not, all ideas are welcome and all comments and criticism is appreciated, as long as the tone is polite.

    For a more generic discussion of the upcoming N4 please use this thread

    Thanks.
     
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  2. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    New TAG plx. Also a weird personal request but less generic rems. Weird how the robot/ai faction doesn't have a more interesting halfway step between standard rems and post humans that aren't dakinis. Seems like the O12 at least get an interesting doggo rem...

    I don't want proxies nerfed but I would like to see them less of an auto include. At the very least making the less used mk profiles more interesting so there's reason not to take the same 3 everytime.

    Please don't buff SP. The meta was awful when they were in force...
     
  3. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    The O-12 Siriusbot is a non-lethal Charybdis Devabot on a larger platform. G:Synch alone we have 4 distinct REM options (Scylla. Drakios. Deva. Arjuna.) Then the most durable remote in the game and the most options in a single profile.
     
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  4. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    There's a couple of units in weird places at the moment;
    Andromeda, penny and pat could all do with a bit of a look and tweak imho.
    Dactlys are very dependent on hector and could do with a swc gun with reasonable range to help them see the table more.
    That ekdromoi hacker has a godawful weapon loadout, if ever there was a profile in need of an SMG, it's there.
    Other than that, phalanx seem to do ok. Would be nice to see a thorakitai link leader that costs 0swc and isn't hector price though. Those thorakitai weapon options are often redundant when the characters come with spitfires and ODD LRL's
     
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  5. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I too wanted a light and cheaper TAG for Aleph when they released OSS, but we already have that with Achilles and Asura, in S2 frame. The Marut is really good - it's funny that the Zeta was supposed to be high tech, but the most high tech TAG in the whole human sphere is still the Marut. It would be nice if they could make it playable in OSS. For now, the Marut is only worth in vanilla, in OSS it lacks too much to be really viable. If you want a TAG in OSS, Asura Spitfire Lt2 is the best one ...

    Indeed those units would need some rework.
    Hector in particular could be great if he could create a mixed enomotarkos (ie: can include dactyls, myrmidons and thorakitai in the same fireteam). For now, he is too expensive and is overshadowed by Achilles.
    About the thorakitai, it's funny cause this saturday i used a full team with LRL to great effect, they are powerful defensers - and not that expensive.
     
    #5 Nenyx, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Yeah it's not that they're bad options, the guns are good and appropriately costed, it's just you're already either paying 1.5swc for a spitfire on Nessy, kinda invalidating the HMG, or your paying 0.5swc for the LRL which invalidates the other HRL which costs more swc and has no ODD. The LRL is also invalidated a little bit by the Feuerbach thanks to range and stopping power and thras being a bit auto-take
     
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  7. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see the Asura get more value from her MSV3. Being able to declare bs attack vs camo marker or something would make it feel distinct from MSV2.

    Post humans feel undercosted but given that Aleph never feels OP, are balanced by other units in the army so if their price goes up something should come down to balance them. It would be nice to have internal balance when Post Humans don't feel like an auto include.

    More order efficiency for the expensive guys to make them more balanced against spamming orders.
     
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I would go with a special Fireteam: Hector plus 0-1 Dactyls, 0-2 Thorakitai, 0-3 Myrmidons, tops 4 members.

    As for the Posthumans, I would give an Mk12 profile to the proxy Mk3, with a reduced SWC cost so she at least competes with the Mk4 in something. I would also make them use 2 slots in the list (so it would top at 9 orders per group), which in LI would be an important choice for Aleph.

    Better linking options for the Asura (something that won't make her Haris cost as much or more than the Marut) and the Yadu (I miss a 3 Yadu + 2 Dakinis fireteam...), or the Sophotect being able to link in OSS.

    About units, a new TAG on the 70-80's point range would be great, even if it's a NWI 2 STR S6 for those missions in which you need it.
     
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  9. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe just give the Marut a Lt2 profile in OSS only, so that it could be still worth playing despite the cost
     
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  10. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Should vanilla aleph get some kind of nerf to help other profiles see more table? I'm thinking about post humans, aquiles, dart and netrods with ava 3.
    I'm not an aleph player, just honestly thinking about it.
     
  11. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that Aleph is OP vs other factions because of these models or just they are too powerful in comparison to other Aleph choices?

    I think on the whole Aleph is a good strength but needs to tweak a bunch of profiles to make fewer auto includes and encourage more variety. Buff deva/yadu/asura/naga/dasyu while reducing value of posthumans and netrods etc?
     
  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It's the same as with Tunguska: certain models are good alone, with no need for Fireteams or minimal support... so they really shine on Vanilla, where the good troop can get more varied supports than in its home sectorial (for example, the Marut getting access to smoke in Vanilla). Another situation is the link they are allowed in the sectorial to be extremely expensive (yadu + yadu + Asura, for example, or Deva + Deva + Asura), so there usually is no difference between using the unit in vanilla or the sectorial.

    In tunguska this happens to Mary Problems, to Perseus, the Kriza...
     
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  13. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    About Asura. Well, the link is expensive, through good (Asura spitfire + deva sensor + deva AHD can do a lot of things for example), but the main problem is, unless you go for the ultra expensive asura / yadu link with NCO HMG, you won't benefit from the main advantage Asura as: being Lt2.
     
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  14. Pan

    Pan New Member

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    Perhaps allow Lt. Lvl. 2 to use the LT Order without breaking the link?
     
  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    That's Strategos 1
     
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  16. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    I could also argue that devabots are just taller, lankier Auxbots. Why I use the SIriusbot as an example is that not only does it look badass but it performs quite an interesting role with that horrendous glue gun. Not saying we should get the glue gun but a REM based method of doing something interesting/weird/different is what I'm after. Also something that looks cool as well.

    But its funny you allude to the Rudras because that's what got me thinking this way. Once I had the Rudras I kept thinking to myself, 'Why doesn't the highest tech of tech factions have other interesting units like this?". Rudras isn't just durable with great weapons but minelayer, climbing plus and fire team options make it very interesting. That's more what I'm referring to. Outside of the rudras and Dakini our REMs are more or less just the standard suite available to all factions.

    I'll admit to straight up forgetting the Kiranbots exist though. My bad. Looks could be more distinct sure, but they perform an important and interesting function which is what I'm after.

    Yeah look I have minor complaints about the Asura but nothing that invalidates choosing it as a minor TAG option. My wanting more TAGs is purely for the desire of a shiny new toy that is hopefully of relevance to OSS (the look of TAGs being one of the things that drew me to Infinity).

    As for the Asura as a light tag option, no fatality and same fragility but smaller S value and potential for Lt2... It's got its trade-offs but I definitely accept it as a pseudo-tag option.
     
    #16 Shoitaan, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  17. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    You know, I too want another new shiny toy :) I would have liked a light and mobile TAG, an Aleph version of the Tikbalank. But this is what the rudra does. So, i don't know what could be shiny while having it's own niche. Maybe a sniper TAG (sort of Aleph's version of the Overdron) ? Or a skirmisher, like mvt 20/5 mimetism spitfire ? Or a CC20 MA1 dual multi rifle TAG ?
     
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  18. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Dangerous idea time:
    How long can the cutter stay in the game as the only T/O TAG (edit: I realise now CA have one too. Shows how many Xenos are in my meta doesn't it..)? It's time for some competition from mama Aleph. Lighter frame (ARM5/6, Silh6), T/O and some kind of movement schtick (climbing or jumping or something) and boom... horrible danger XD
     
    #18 Shoitaan, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  19. Pen-dragon

    Pen-dragon Deva

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    If you want another TAG, just take Asura HD+ and borrow the enemy's TAG . . .

    On a more serious note, I would like to see some slight changes to the Posthuman. It makes me sad that there is little reason to take the MK3 over the MK4, but mostly I just don't want to listen to the "Posthuman OP" whine anymore.

    Overall I feel the Aleph faction is in a pretty good place. There are a couple of profiles I don't care for, but I don't use them, and have plenty of options elsewhere.
     
  20. Devil_Tiger

    Devil_Tiger Your Friendly Neighborhood Asura

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    I'm affraid that Posthumans are necessary for ALEPH's internal balance, just like Kuang Shi may be necessary to ISS, (or perhaps even the Mutts? Though i have my own issues with Jammers, and cheapo warbands in general, especially of the regular sort (I mean whoever made the O12 list thought Kappa would have any place in a list when Varangian Guards exist!? Are they even looking at the lists peoples make?) but that's another can of worms and one that do not concern ALEPH as a faction all that much, as much as i'd like smoke in OSS to help my big mommy bunny having a better time.)

    I mostly speak from OSS because i play only that sectorial so...

    My hope is in general for things to be less boring: Danavas are boring, Shukra are boring, Apsara are boring, as other have mentioned: basic REM are boring.

    For the first three, i really disliked those units whose entire job is to sit in a corner and do quite litterally nothing, and basically not interact with the game, or just have one thing they do and sit there. Danavas are just cheap (but good) hacker that just seem a bit bland/out of place in ALEPH, Shukra could have been somehting cool like Gangbusters, but no, it's just a guy with CoC or Strategos 1 who didn't ask for this... And Apsaras... As awesome as the mini is and the lore/theme are, Ghost L:Z is just... Why!? It's convoluted and don't offer much more than supportware did before, and is really only useful for dakini links and quite litterally nothing else (a Rudra would only get a single point of BS, and i guess that leaves the FTO missile bot)

    The the remotes, they're just the same as everyone else's while they could have been a flipside to the Combined drones, with an emphasis on defense, as, overall, CA's units favour firepower while ALEPH's favour defense.

    And then yeah, the Marut, i wish she'd be able to better stand on her own without needing a greek babysitting her. Though that do not stop me from fielding her, i love the big bunny bot, but good god am I paying through the nose for it.

    And... I guess then i'd wish for something to be done about MSV3, because, seriously, wtf CB!?

    So yeah all this may sound like whining and a list of grievances but that's just the things i'd like to see changed in the future. Not holding my breath though, most of it is more of a "flavour" thing than anything and the course is already set i presume.
     
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