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Aida Swanson

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zealot36, Nov 28, 2018.

?

CSUs or Aida?

  1. CSUs

    16 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. Aida

    7 vote(s)
    29.2%
  3. Neither (see my comment)

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  1. Zealot36

    Zealot36 Member

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    Hey guys, i recently asked for help making a list with the new Deva AHD. After some valuable input and testing I went with this:

    [​IMG] CSUs
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] DEVA (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] HEXA Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Bad news is, I found out CSUs can't use duo in NCA. I think thats kind of silly... its not a HUGE deal, but it got me thinking: could I benefit from rolling them up into Aida Swanson for the same points? Her profile seems good, almost like a cheaper, more versatile locust. Maybe the only issue is the lack of specialist. Anyone have experience using her?

    Comments or advice on the list in general is always welcome too.

    Thanks!
     
    TheEmptyRoad and barakiel like this.
  2. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

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    I think the two CSUs are more valuable. You get two regular orders, each has a Shotgun and template weapon for defending your DZ. They are cheap enough that you can use them to move in and detonate mines or tie up skirmishers.

    Their worth only increases if you get a really nice meta chemistry roll, like Enhanced Mobility.
     
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  3. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    It depends though. Aida is really good. Viral Mines are ace and really ruin some factions!
     
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  4. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    What Thanan says is true: CSU is pretty good deployment zone defense. but if you're really stretched for that, Auxilia are always going to be a better choice. Aida performs a different role entirely. She gives NCA board control and the ability to shred enemy infiltrators, which is something NCA lacks. The only other comparable profile is something like the black friar.

    Viral mines are really dangerous for most enemies, 2 SMGS can always win a gun fight in the 0-8 band and the viral pistol is a really nice back up to have. For me, Aida is a staple in this army now.

    now only if we could get some mixed links.....
     
    Zealot36 likes this.
  5. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    The one to take out is the spitfire Hexa, you already pay the HMG Swiss for that.
    Turn him into Aída and some upgrade so you can enjoy it all.
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    All the questions asked so far are very good.

    For me, it comes down to:
    • Do you also have Auxilia in your list? If yes, you can probably lean on them for DZ defense, and drop the CSUs for Aida.
    • Do you need the Specialists? If you anticipate pushing a lot of buttons, having 2 decent, self-sufficient Specialists really helps.
    Since the list in the original post doesn't have the usual NCA defensive staples (Auxbots, Hexa MSR,) I would definitely keep the CSUs. I think you want that extra Deployment Zone defense that they provide.
     
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  7. Zealot36

    Zealot36 Member

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    Thanks a ton for all the replies and input, very helpful as always.

    Seems like the community prefers the CSUs because my list needs something for dz defense. Makes sense to me. I considered combining the warcor and a CSU into an auxilia FO for that, but i honestly dont think its as good a deal...

    Im using the hexa spitfire because Im not a great player yet. First, I like to have him as a backup threat in case I misplay and get my Swiss blasted. Second, I find it tough to get the most out of the hexa MSR due to the awkward range band and uninspiring active turn.

    Come to think of it, an overwatch primer would be a really great read for new players. Ive found sniper tactics tough to get the hang of in infinity. Anybody know if something like that exists and where to find it?
     
  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    One of the challenges for developing that kind of resource is that it's very, very dependent on the situation. Infinity depends so much on circumstance. If I'm revealing a Hexa Sniper, I have to ask myself the following:

    • What turn is it?
    • How durable is the intended target?
    • Is my target likely to outshoot my Hexa?
    • Is the target likely to Dodge or Smoke the Hexa?
    • How many Orders has my target already expended?
    • How many Orders does my target have remaining?
    • What other units are in my target's Combat Group?
    • What other units are in my opponent's secondary Combat Groups?
    • Do I want to reveal the Hexa to have its Order in my pool next turn?
    • Do I need to save this ARO for a more important target?
    • How many Orders does an opponent have to spend to see my Hexa with a dangerous gunfighter?
    • Is my target linked?
    • Is my target the link leader?
    • In the intended target moving to engage another one of my units, letting me double up on AROs?
    • Is there a Doctor / Engineer near my intended target?
    • Can that Doctor / Engineer reach my intended target without me being able to fire another ARO?
    • Do I have a Doctor near my Hexa?
    • Is my intended target using a weapon likely to overkill my Hexa, such as Viral, Shock, or EXP?
    • Am I relying on my Hexa for a secondary, more important defensive role, like watching a table edge vs an opponent who is likely to have Airborn Deployment?
    • If I lose the Hexa by revealing, am I missing out on a valuable active turn fire + maneuver role that makes my own turn more powerful or decisive?
    • Am I maximizing the long range of the MULTI Sniper? (i.e. is my opponent returning fire at a -3 or -6 range band?)
    • Am I maximizing the value of TO (i.e. does my opponent have MSV or crazy-high linked Ballistic Skill?)
    • How likely is my Hexa to actually hit what he fires at? (i.e. is my opponent wearing TO or ODD, is it out of cover, does it have a nanoscreen, etc.)
    • How likely is this to emotionally fluster or disrupt my opponent's concentration?
    • If revealing really sabotages my opponent's game plan, how likely are they to create a backup gameplan?
    • If I reveal the Hexa, will my opponent decide on a different strategy for the turn that's actually more dangerous? (i.e., if they were planning to push a console on Turn 1, but instead decide to bring in a drop trooper and it kills my backline, I may not have gained anything even if my Hexa prevents the console push.)
    • Have I given up a valuable psychological tool by revealing the Hexa too early?
    So obviously this is a fair amount of data to compute, usually in just a couple of seconds (perhaps less, because you may need to quickly announce that you're interrupting your opponent's Order so that you can declare an ARO.) It makes it difficult to try and write a guide. But perhaps it will give you some of your own ideas.
     
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  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I was running CSUs long before the amazing new profiles appeared, and long before we even dreamed of Duo.

    They were brilliant then.

    They are even better now.
     
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  10. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    ARO for beginners:

    First rule: Whatever you use for ARO will die, if it doesn't, great, assume it will.

    Second rule: You dont ARO to kill models, you ARO to make the enemy waste orders and fuck up his plan, if you kill something, great, assume you wont.

    Third rule: Your mines are a extension of your ARO, use them, dont expect them to kill, if they do, great, dont count on it.

    Forth rule: Snipers close diagonals, straight lanes to the enemy DZ will get them killed by the first HMG, make him waste the orders moving into position.

    Fifth rule: You can dodge if the numbers are too bad for you, you can fall prone if you get hit and survive, you made him waste orders getting into position and taking the shot, dont suicide your guys for nothing.

    Once you practice and internalize this 5 simple rules you will be able to do what @barakiel showed you, design out of cover ambushes, double target ambushes, guide your enemy units in the lanes you want or away of the ones you dont want, make him sacrifice orders and units to triger mines that threaten soldiers he is not willig to risk, etc, etc, etc...........
    But that comes with practice, looooooots of practice and develop of your own personal style.
     
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  11. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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  12. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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  13. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Your snipers should be used to ARO diagonals, meaning do not place them directly facing from your DZ to the enemy's DZ. It makes them to easy to take out. Snipers overlooking diagonals across the the board will limit how much of the board the sniper is vunerable to and force your opponent to move their long range weapons to get an angle on your sniper.
     
  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Great points guys, the only thing I have left to add is unique to TO Snipers.
    Layering.
    A lot of people play with Intent which makes it hard to get multiple AROs against the same target (and that's a good thing). A TO Sniper or Swissguard nicely circumvents the problem by being invisible.
    Do yo have a capable ARO piece like a TR bot or linked ML? Do you expect something nasty to show up and kill it? Grest!
    Now deploy Hexa as reserve piece in a position that has LOF to the corner where the HMG will try to engage you from.

    Sounds easy but is a lot of work.
    - doesn't work against MSV+Smoke (which doesn't provide benefits against Links thus makes for a convenient combo)
    - under optimal circumstances you'll want to catch whatever is engaging your other ARO piece without Cover.
    - extra points for catching a Link with a Swiss ML while the Linkleader is trying to engage something else
     
    #14 Teslarod, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  15. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    thanks dudes.

    Sure, normally there is 24´ between DZ, if you put your sniper in a straight lane he will probably be inside the good range (32´) of the HMG facing him, you can mitigate that deploying on the edge of the table but that is corner case if you REALLY have to cover that lane, there is only 48´ and you can´t count on the last 12´ because that is how far your enemy can deploy.

    The "best practice" is to do it like @Death said, completely out of vision of short lanes where the enemy can get you in his good range, but covering long diagonal lanes that hinders the advance on specific areas and are far away, because now you have 68´to work with.
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Layering AROs is definitely very important.

    I find that suppression fire and a hard hitting TO Camo marker ARO works well. I've used that before in Tunguska with Hecklers providing a suppression in an elevated position and a Spektr providing support. Difficult for an opponent to deal with.
     
    #16 Solar, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  17. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    They can't? Why is there discrepancy between Army (which lists Duo for them) and wiki (which doesn't)? Which has the priority? Why is this such a mess now, with some units having Core listed, some not, and it apparently being "by design"?
    What kind of Spaniard came up with this?
     
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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Wiki. Army is unreliable when it comes to Fireteams.

    And the reason why army is not reliable in the matter is technical one.

    Someone didn't fed the coders well or the usually feature creep :D (Army was not initially designed to support such constructs and now it's a hard task to reorganise everything to work properly and support Fireteams)
     
  19. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    The siesta loving, paella eating kind :P
     
  20. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    We are working on it.
     
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