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Advice on Ramah list for Supplies (LI)

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Shoitaan, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Hello folks

    As title suggests, just trying to get a 300pt Ramah list together for a friendly game of Supplies (Limited Insertion). Opponent will be a Tunguska player who's somewhat green with Infinity. I think he has either less than 10 or around 10 games around his belt. I have only 2 previous games with Ramah and barely 5 with Haqq so maybe equivalent? I also have somehow never played Supplies before so we're both inexperienced with the scenario.

    Here's a list I was considering:

    Steal some supplies
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    MAGHARIBA (Fireteam: Duo, 360º Visor) MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower, Mine Dispenser / AP Heavy Pistol. (2 | 99)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Red Fury, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 22)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    TUAREG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    NAHAB (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30)

    4.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    So the idea being the Maggie can stomp up and clear the path to one tech coffin. Parks in front of it, pilot hops out the back to loot it. Retreat to safe distance. Throw out some mines covering the rear and provide fire support as best she can for the rest of the game (while dodging hackers).
    Other coffins can be grabbed either via smoke tricks with the ghulam link, Leila + Rafiq fire support, Nahab or Tuareg. Ideally though the Tuareg or Nahab would be off the board for long enough to catch his attempt at a coffin. Given Tunguska doesn't have MSV2, the Ghulam link moving up is probably ideal.

    However I did give a lot of consideration to subbing out the Nahab for a Hakim for the +3 to the supplies roll as well as having all the benefits of the Hakim itself of course. But I've never used a Nahab so in a way I made the choice this way so I could finally give it a spin.

    I was also wondering whether I should drop some points to make space for an engineer and to possibly swap out the plain naffatun for a Ghulam hacker so I can overclock the Rafiq or give it assisted fire as required.
    Thoughts?
     
    #1 Shoitaan, Aug 20, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  2. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    You have nothing to stop the enemy from grabbing a coffin. If he does, you have minimal orders to retrieve it. I would suggest dropping the Khawarij MSV2 for a Mukhtar for the MSV2, and then drop the Nahab for a reworked core link with ARO presence.

    Ramah Taskforce
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    MAGHARIBA (Fireteam: Duo, 360º Visor) MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower, Mine Dispenser / AP Heavy Pistol. (2 | 99)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()
    GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    KHAWARIJ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 28)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)
    TUAREG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)

    6 SWC | 296 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    In LI spending points on the Engineer wouldn't be ideal. He can heal the Maggy, but its doubtful it would be a priority.

    Leila can duo with the Rafiq, or Maggy, or Mukhtar. Dont have the Maggy dismount the pilot, drag a specialist with her. It would be more efficient.
     
    Shoitaan likes this.
  3. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    So instead of hoping the Nahab/Hakim can walk in off the board to seize supplies off enemy looters, just ARO hell to prevent the looting in the first place? I guess that makes sense. Plus between the 6-4 of the Maggie and the 6-2 of the Mukhtar I can chase if required in certain lanes. Have I got that right?
     
    theGricks likes this.
  4. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    If you had more than 10 orders I would suggest a Nahab, but at LI level...you need as many orders on the board first turn as you can. 6-4 maggy along with smoked Mukhtar should be able to easily fight their way down any lane.
     
    Shoitaan likes this.
  5. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice @theGricks. A brutal game was played and I ekked out a minor victory. The muktar was of course an incredible solo piece. The reliable solution to neutering Mary Problems. My asinine deployment and very poor luck with rolls unfortunately had the AROunits of the fireteam neutered fairly easily. At least I made him waste orders to advance. But I still regret getting them killed so easily.

    The magribha was surprisingly mvp. Due to circumstances I did have to eject her pilot to grab a coffin. On top that the s10 kept catching my opponent off guard. Damn thing can peak over a surprising amount of terrain. Killed his perseus, stempler, raoul haris by just being tall. He thought they were safe with LOF blocked XD

    Learning Ramah a bit better every game.

    Only annoyance was losing my Tuareg on the first order of the game. I declared surprise hack attack against Mary who's lightning made it through instead. Not sure if bad dice or I chose the match up wrongly.
     
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  6. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    The problem is KHD's will always have an advantage against AHD, even with surprise hacking. They are really good at killing other hackers. I don't know if your list had anything particularly good at fighting her. Even if you got close, you would have to deal with ODD.
     
    Shoitaan likes this.
  7. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Well the way the table was laid out and the way my opponent deployed Mary (Right at the half-way line on top of a 2-3 story building, prone) meant I had two options. Spend pretty much only 1 order to get the Ghulam NCO in spec fire range or send teh Mukthar. I chose the mukthar which consumed 7(?) orders (killed a Spectr MSR on the way) but I think it was the right choice. Given her kinematica, her dodge rolls would be pretty frustrating. Left the Muktar and maggie in supp fire with a coordinated order and that hindered him slightly. But he devoted the orders he needed to send a Grenzer sniper after teh Muktar to outrange me by a lot. Bye bye Muktar... thanks for killing teh sniper that stunned the maggie...
     
  8. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    Specfire would actually have been perfect. Shes dodging at -3.
     
  9. Challenger

    Challenger Well-Known Member

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    When i put it into dice calculator, its:

    Net bs11 (-6 spec, +3rng +3 link) b1

    Vs

    Net ph 10 (hyper +3, no LoF -3)

    With 26.5% to uncon mary

    39.5 no one succeeds

    34% mary dodges


    Is that still a target youd go after for spec fire? Usually i like to try to hit multiple targets per spec so that the low odds increases until its more likely to get *someone*
     
  10. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Without getting into extreme detail, I was trying to be too clever when deploying the FT to maximise ARO opportunities. As a result, I couldn't really move without either potentially copping an unchallenged ARO (too hard to tell easily) or breaking coherency. Given how poorly my first 2 rolls went and my poor experience trying to spec fire in the game 2 weeks ago, I bet on the muktar. He'd want to go hunting up field eventually anyway.
     
  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    @Challenger
    I was about to say the same, but it was said that it took like 7 orders for Mukhtar to reach the target. If that's how he is, spec. firing seems like a sane solution, provided you have that +3 range and a full link.
     
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  12. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    So if you want to Leila her with Trinity:
    Active Player
    31.64%
    31.64% Leila inflicts 2 or more wounds on Mary Problems, Tactical ÜberHacker (Dead)

    Failures
    37.25% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    31.12% Mary Problems, Tactical ÜberHacker inflicts 1 or more wounds on Leila (Unconscious)

    If Spec Firing:
    Active Player
    22.00% Ghulam inflicts 1 or more wounds on Mary Problems, Tactical ÜberHacker (Unconscious)

    Failures
    30.00% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    48.00% Mary Problems, Tactical ÜberHacker Dodges Ghulam

    So really, it appears, even with Mary being a super hacker, Leila on the active turn hacking has better odds. The issue comes down to Orders spent to do this. Spec Firing would probably be 2-3 orders to get into position and an average of 4 orders to wound. Hacking would be 4-5 orders to get into position and average 3 orders to wound.

    Really...this one comes down to efficiency and luck. Further, if shes on a roof, maybe its best to just ignore her and kill any repeaters on the board. Set up ARO's.
     
  13. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    @theGricks
    A minor nitpicking is a classic one here: you really shouldn't be using Trinity when you have Redrum, which is almost always in this game. Except a few niche cases, with this not being one of them.

    I do agree with the last suggestion though. It's way too much orders to take down one unit, I wonder what was going on in that match.
     
  14. Shoitaan

    Shoitaan Well-Known Member

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    Haha all right well to defend my decision further I guess more details are required.

    A tech coffin was on that roof that Mary had deployed quite near.

    Due to the irritating terrain, the rooftop could give Mary access to the Maggie (with some shuffling around) if Maggie advanced past the DZ. Mary could easily try to specfire a pitcher at her instead if she never left the DZ which may also let her strike leila who was stuck behind the Maggi. Maggie needed to advance to suppress raoul haris and allow Leila advance.

    Basically that 1 unit could neutralise a third of my army and take a supply from the comfort of her rooftop. Neutralising Maggie/Leila would also prevent me from grabbing a box as well. (Edit: I forgot about his Interventor LT he had tucked away in the way back)He had no other hackers. I made the decision that she had to go!
     
    #14 Shoitaan, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  15. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was "Use Redrum on ARO, use Trinity on Active"? Or is it use Redrum always and forever?
     
  16. Koval

    Koval Active Member

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    It's unfortunately not that clear-cut. Let's assume Mary uses Lightning, because she probably will.

    Leila uses Trinity
    Leila goes unconscious: 31.12%
    Mary dies: 31.64%

    Leila uses Redrum
    Leila goes unconscious: 26.34%
    Mary goes unconscious or dies: 35.45%

    In this case, we see that Redrum is better. The only advantage of Trinity is the shock giving a much greater chance of killing Mary outright.

    I'll also point out that the numbers are bad either way, and this isn't a risk I'd want to spend orders on.
     
  17. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Trinity becomes superior if you're stacking serious MODs, but I'm not sure Ramah has that capacity. If you're not sure, 'always redrum' is a pretty good shorthand.
     
  18. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Theoretically Ramah can give her Tinbot and Kaledoscope support, but that would be different list and EVO is a tough sell in general, nevermind activating Kaleidoscope.

    That's on topic of stacking mods.
     
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