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Advice for Avatar list

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Baoh, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

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    Here's my list with Avatar. I've tried just one time (i'm noob) the Avatar with 10 orders list but i feel a bit short, usually run 14-16 orders with Combined. What you think? Any suggestions?
    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Red Fury, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 24)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Well, you can't hope to match spam levels of orders with a 130 pts miniature (it is hard enough with a Skiavoros, so...). And fitting cheap orders... don't work. Your avatar takes 3 hits and goes down on your first reactive turn, what will you do?

    Considering what you have on group 2, I would forfeit it altogether to avoid losing 2 regular orders on the first turn from group 1. It is otherwise obvious that you are transitioning from Morat to generic, with some small purchases.

    I would not field both a Speculo and the Avatar on the same list, while it pays to have her, she is an order eater (and a Skiavoros 1 group list with a Speculo is quite good) you cannot leave unused on your turn, and the enemy will try to take out, so...
    Also you have literally 2 specialists. If you are going for killy missions, the FO is unnecesary, and if you are going for Zamburguer missions, it is not nearly enough. Plus you cannot repeat the Avatar's engineering rolls, so you want the best WP you can get to run repairs on it!

    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 18)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    If you want to spare some SWC, the Unidron spitfire can be safely downgraded to Unidron K1. The trick here is to use the Daturazis to cover the Avatar's advance, using Bit & Kiss to give some cover to the Legate (there are a lot of repeaters here, and only two hackers), and finally use the Legate to lay some White Noise (and Marksmanship supportware to the Unidron as needed) where you want the Avatar to fire (so he imposes a -9 to any enemy, no matter about MSV2/3). I would prefer to fit an E-Drone aswell, but there are not enough points.
     
  3. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    Btw you can repeat the engineering rolls :)
     
  4. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    Here is my Avatar list already tested with success
    [​IMG] Random CA──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137) [​IMG]
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG]Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) [​IMG]
    [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] KO DALI Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Or
    [​IMG] A1──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137) [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) [​IMG]
    [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] KO DALI Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #4 C0MR4DE, Jan 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Frigging dislexia is getting out of hand lately XD

    Yeah, Engineering rolls can be repeated (RAW, incidentally) on the Avatar because Mnemonica is a type of Ghost, which is the required requisite for that.
    What you cannot repeat are the Doctor rolls on Mnemonica troops because they are considered as not having a Cube, which is te requisite for repeating the roll.
     
  6. gru6y

    gru6y Well-Known Member

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    @Vaulsc has videos on his channel about running a ten order Avatar list.
     
    Vaulsc likes this.
  7. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    My only Avatar list (tested once with success) :

    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The aim is to slow down ennemies midfield with the Shrouded and the Krakot. The mission helped by requiring no specialists.
     
  8. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

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    Great tips guys, just few questions on some models: The presence of Legate is for white noise (and specialist too)? Why the E-drone? @xagroth The speculo is a great order eater but the plan is to use it the first turn just in case Avatar is too far from action.
     
  9. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    Yes. Your worst enemies are hackers (isolation), msv 2/3 aro pieces. With white noise you can hide from 'em.
    E drone: +3 for ko dali if you use combat jump, bit can reroll a dice for a command token, coordinated hacking and Exile+ goodnight. If you fail the initiative roll, you can use overclock, because all the rems have repeater.
     
    Sabin76 likes this.
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Also, the E-Drone is the only EVO with any kind of BS weapon, and falling anything else he can self-Supportware with Marksmanship N2
     
  11. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
    Warcor

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    Self buff E-Drone catches a lot of people out, it's great.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  12. timmy

    timmy Active Member

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    I've played the avatar, a number of games and I've had really good success with him.
    The last list I played was something like this.
    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    An avatar and speculo is a really powerful combination if your going first. I was able to use the noctifer and avatar to lock down a jotum when I couldn't remove it the first turn. Dr. Wrom I feel is necessary to bring repairs and his cost isn't that prohibitive.

    In spec ops games the avatar gets way better by having a unit providing high wip hacking, doctor and engineer.

    I don't think I'd ever really try to use an avatar list against ariadna too many tokens and too much smoke. I've had mixed performance against them in the past.
     
  13. Baoh

    Baoh New Member

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    I make this list for next game. The plan is to have first turn and drop Ko Dali supported by daturazi smoke. Q-drone is here for fire backup but don't be really sure is needed.
    @timmy thanks for tips! You do well with a noctifier? In vanilla 14-16 order list is good but i feel that in a 10 order list roll one single die is sometimes too risky.

    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] KO DALI Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  14. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    Fall1, gru6y, Golem2God and 1 other person like this.
  15. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    You can't re-roll engineering rolls on an avatar, the pre-requisite for that isn't having a Ghost skill, it's specifically having Remote Presence.

    Most Ghost skills specifically say they grant Remote Presence, Mnemonica is the sole exception.
     
  16. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
    Warcor

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    • Reroll a failed WIP Roll when trying to use the Special Skill Engineer on a troop with the Ghost Special Skill. This reroll does not provide a new ARO to the enemy.
     
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  17. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    As @jfunkd has cited the engineering skill, any troop with ghost gets the rerroll option ;). The "misconception" comes from TAGs (broken into "you can repeat engineering rolls because Remote presence" and "you cannot because there is pilot inside").

    Fun thing: Su Jian and Posthumans have Ghost: Remote Presence AND Wounds value... And I see no reason whatsoever for them to have that whole rule, since only Courage can be applied. And I have asked for clarification from CB more than six months ago (via a game tester), yet no answer came.
    Why is this relevant? Essentially in spanish the rule does not specify "repair" in the rerroll part of the rule (it just says "if the target is a troop with the Ghost....") so a Sophotecto, being both an engineer and a doctor (or any Specops with both skills, for that matter) should be able, RAW (in spanish) to spend command tokens to rerroll her tests to recover a Posthuman or a Su Jian... And my point is, if this was not intended, why the hell give them a whole skillset when they only would use a nested skill (courage) and nothing from Ghost?
     
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  18. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
    Warcor

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    I'm pretty sure the Su Jian has STR, not W.

    Posthumans have G: RP (via G: Jumper) mostly for fluff reasons, I think.
     
  19. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    This is a dubious summary dot point, the actual source of the rule is the Remote Presence rule, it has been verified on the old forums you don't get to re-roll
    • Additionally, when using Engineer (or other Special Skills or piece of Equipment that state so explicitly) to repair a trooper with G: Remote Presence, you may expend one Command Token to reroll a failed WIP Roll.
    See this thread for official clarification though, note it has been marked as solved, locked, with a response selected as the best answer. This marks it as an official CB response.

    http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/31585-solved-g-mnemonica-counts-as-g-remote-presence-or-no/
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    @toadchild yeah, the Su Jian is STR, mixed it with it being a HI (there is a reason I don't like it: it's inelegantly implemented on the game).

    Then I must say it is bad forms to not release a FAQ nor change the rules. That post is from 2015, and will be wiped with the old forum!

    Add to that how the norm is addition, not substraction*, when talking about rules, and it makes no sense. All that, for NOT FRIGGING CHANGE the wording of Engineer.

    Edit: *: the norm with CB rules is when something encompasses other thing, it doesn't mean that other thing doesn't have it. In this case, Mnemonica is a type of Ghost, and the wording, RAW, on Engineer is precisely that you only require for the target to have Ghost (and it further links you to the Ghost types page), meaning it includes Mnemonica.
    If CB does not want that, they NEED to release a FAQ and/or change that part of Engineer, not just "tick" an answer that explicitely contradicts RAW and say no word.

    Frankly speaking, each passing day I am more and more disillusioned with CB's approach to the game. The miniatures are superb, nobody challenges that, but without rules, for me, they lack any attractive at all. And I'm not a competitive player.
     
    #20 xagroth, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018