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Adil's armored profile is as thematically unsatisfying as it is mediocre and deserving another look

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Weathercock, Oct 16, 2020.

  1. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    Acording to my criteria
    • Krit FD: fails the point 4
    • Krit FTO: fails point 5
    • Shang-ji fails point 3
    • Liuxing fails points 2 and 3
    • Hulang FD is tier 2 on the 5th point
    • Hulang FTO is tier 1 on the 5th point
    • Hactao is Tier 3
    • Guijia is tier 1
    • Adil LI is tier 1 (+1 tier with smoke CG on FT)
    • Adil Crane fails point 5 (tier 1 with smoke CG on FT)
    • Crane fail point 5 (tier 1 with smoke CG)
    • Hsien is tier 1
    • Pheasant fails point 5
    • Pheasant KHD is tier 1
    • Zhanyin fail points 1 and 5
    • Kanren are tier 2
    • Ninjas are tier 3
    • Kunai are tier 1
    • Miranda is tier 1
    • Sforza is tier 1
    • Taowu fails point 5
    • Daofei fail point 3 without surprise, otherwise tier 1
    • Blue wolf fails point4 (in duo with tinbot it would be tier 2)
    • Jingqo is tier 2 (+1 with shaolin)
    • Shaolin are tier 2
    • Liangkai is tier 2
    I don't know if I'm missing someone else
     
    #41 Mc_Clane, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I meant the other factions on that checklist vs Yu Jing. Do you feel according to that checklist Yu Jing are alot worse off than everyone, or just JSA?
     
  3. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Post before I made a list of units in other factions and most of them have better assassin than ninja and warband than monk. And some better beffy CC monsters with smoke. Hulang would be up there is he got eclipse imo.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Most of the guys you listed lost Stealth or never had it in the first place. They actually have a hard time getting into CC in N4 because of the ZoC dodging allowing people to back off from their smoke setups and shoot them, or reposition to get overlapping AROs. The exception being the Greeks, but they've always been ahead of us since JSA left and in fairness they too give up shit to specialise in CQC. You might get annoyed that they have better CC but trust me the ASS player is just as annoyed when you dump a bunch of minelayers in front of him as their faction gets none, and mines kinda suck for them to run into.
     
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  5. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    Regarding faction CC specialist Quality...
    Aleph has a lot of tier 3 due to the abundant smoke, frenzy and ODD in ASS and Andromeda is a beast,
    Pano has plenty of troops on the tier 1 and 2 inside their MOs. And if we consider frenzy like impetuous quite a few upgrades there.
    Haqqislam has some too inside hassassin
    Ariadna has a lot of tiers 3s due to smoke, impetuous and dodge. Higlanders, SAS, varagnian, antipodes, dogwarriors and wulver charaters,... But somehow it doesn't feel confortable enough to exploit this game
    EC has the powercreeping protheion that makes CC specialists dreadfull meat tanks... and the upper advantage on de dodging+mobility side

    I find Yujing in the middle of the table towards CC specialist quality. towards quantity... It's on the top 5 maybe?
    • EC (20): 9x T3, 6x T2, 5x T1
    • JSA (13): 9x T3, 1x T2, 3x T1
    • Ariadna (16): 8x T3, 5x T2, 3x T1
    • Aleph (7): 5x T3, 1x T2, 1x T1.
    • O-12 (9): 5x T3, 0x T2, 4x T1.
    • Pano (17): 4x T3, 8x T2, 5x T1
    • Yujing (18): 3x T3, 7x T2, 8x T1 (counting sectorial mecs as ours)
    • Haqqislam (11): 3x T3, 6x T2, 2x T1.
    • Nomadas (7): 1x T3, 4x T2, 2x T1.
    • Tohaa ?¿
    • NA2 ?¿
    The main points working against yujing CC expertise are:
    1. So little impetuous/frenzy
    2. We don't know how to dodge (but rather have an innate +dodging distance hardly exploitable)
    3. Smoke is pretty exotic
    4. a lot of our troops are hackable
     
    #45 Mc_Clane, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I'm ok with the current amount of impetuous and frenzy stuff, but I agree we could use some more smoke options particularly after the CG got worse at the job for Vanilla.
     
  7. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    Smoke for ninja, eclipse for hulang and call it a day :)
     
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  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I was more thinking some bikes. It'd be nice to get some bikes back and they'd be a good spot for 20-30pt smoke.
     
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  9. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    well, I'm no one to demand this or that. impetuous is specially useful in cheap troops that dodge quite good or have smoke, and since we are crappy dodgers with PH mainly between 10 and 12... impetuous is not so useful.

    I just simply have some general criteria to value the quality of CC troops based on a minimum statline and the easy you'll find your self in a situation that favors going CC. Other people criteria could differ from mine. For example:
    • I'm sure CB values fireteams and DUO as a mean of approach CC... I just don't, because moving several troops adds complexity, makes you vulnerable to template, normal AROs and wasting movements shooting safely from cover.
    • I'm sure some could argue that a good BS weapon is a mean of approach... but that same BS weapon can be the reason why you never end un in CC on the first place.
    Just please, Stop saying Yujing is on top of the CC chainfood. There are plenty of factions that have better chances of going CC and bigger CC monsters. Our faction specializes in equilibrium, polivalence and diversity. That's by Fluf the meaning behind the Yu-jing concept and terminology. A clear definition of a faction in the middle in every aspect.
     
    #49 Mc_Clane, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    To my perception the two top CC are JSA and Nomads for whole factions. JSA is "no duh". Nomads have some of the best for the points. Chimera with 3 pups, Brando, and Morlocks are great. Chimera and Brando have torn me apart a few times.

    While not the whole faction, Spiral is also is pretty good. Especially the Igao is fantastic for it's price. Camo & Infiltration, CC23, MA L3, CC -3. So with surprise attack the opponent is at -9. Then Shock+DA CCW at PH/DMG 15. There's the 2 Surda's with Viral CCW too.

    Sadly Yu Jing is not a CCW faction. They may have a lot of guys with higher than average CC but with no way to actually use it. They now have a few good ones but I think they were a token effort by CB. The Ninja and Kanren have are the only ones with a token state and a infiltration or FD. And the Kanren is really not great. The new Liang Kai, Adil, and Jing Qo are good if they actually get into CC but you are going to put the work into getting them there. We now have 4 HI with marital arts but only really 3 with decent CC and Marital Arts. Hsien should be much better I think. And the Hsien is the only one of those that got the 6-2 Move.
     
    #50 Space Ranger, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  11. JudgeDee7

    JudgeDee7 Member

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    I really enjoy the aesthetic and gameplay of bike units, and a game against the Ariadna maverick made me realize how effective they can be with a little smoke cover. I really hope Yu Jing gets another bike unit soon- honestly I was hoping they would get one in WB.
     
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  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping for the same. Bikes just look cool to me and can be fun to play. Oh well, maybe N5.
     
  13. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    That’s what she said.
     
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  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I should have said Ariadna too due to Cameronians, Bearpodes, Antipodes, Cadin, etc. It's been a while since I've been up against Ariadna but going against McMurder in Dahshat reminded me. And I'd love a YJ version of the Rangers. CC23, MA L2, with AP CCW, and coming on the board from the sides!
     
  15. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    Athough not so many, Nomads have pretty good quality CC troops too. Jaguars, bandits, uberfall, brando, Perseus and Morlocks. Even cherkillers and taskmasters are pretty decent. but nomad playstile kind of avoids CC because they have a lot of more efficient attacking tools. Smoke combo, White noise, beasts on the hacking and repeater network game, lots of camouflaged troops, SinEaters... CC seems a trivial matter for them needing to resort to close quarters, spending countless orders and taking risks
     
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  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes and that's what makes it even more infuriating! They have all of these good CC guys and don't need them lol. My friend that plays Bakunin uses them to leverage the other things in his force. But the funny thing is he may use like the uberfall to get his Riot Grrls up but then uberfall pups kill everything before the Grrls can.
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well they just added Dodge +1" to the LI Adil.
     
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  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    For a total of +2".

    I really don't think he's that bad compared to the other Crane. One point of CC is not a huge deal, any higher MA is worthless with a Mono weapon. I also think the Veteran, Special Operative, and #2 are worth the difference. It actually gives him a bit more "character" in comparison. The only thing I wish he had is an X-Visor.
     
  19. HANGMAN

    HANGMAN Member

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    Does X-Visor work with Triangulated Fire?
     
  20. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    No, X-Visor has no functionality with Triangulated Fire, since the mod is not related to a rangeband.

    X-visor does, however, function extremely well with suppressive fire, and additionally its functionality can reduce the need for traingulated fire in some circumstances. It's also really good with the sensor bonus to discover rolls, since you can discover from nearly across the table at WIP 20 (when you're rocking competent Crane WIP14).
     
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