Possible minor Betrayal spoilers below When we heard that Adil was getting a proper Crane profile and gorgeous Crane sculpt with the release of N4, I was pretty excited. Cranes are cool. Adil was pretty cool in Betrayal. I even think Adil's MI profile is kind of cool, if pricey and suffering from a few optimization issues. So we should have a chocolate and peanut butter situation here. ...And then it turns out that he kind of sucks. So let's take a look at where things went wrong. We'll start with the profiles that inform his own, with both the regular Crane agent and Adil's own MI profile: And then somehow we end up with this: So, the most egregious comparison for me is to the regular Crane profile. First off, Adil loses a point of both CC and WIP. While this is likely done to keep parity with his MI profile, it poses a problem because it's kind of silly to waste design space on a special character profile only to make him worse than the unit he's based on. Continuing, he loses a point of Martial Arts, although outside of thematic purposes, this isn't a big deal as he uses a monofilament CCW so the point lost here is irrelevant and is mostly there to optimize costs. More importantly, he loses out on an X-visor, which is available on any of the non-hacker Crane variants (at least, the ones who can bother to keep their helmets on!). He also loses a burst off his nanopulser. In exchange, Adil's Crane profile gains the veteran rule, a breaker combi, and a mono CCW. Compared to Adil's base profile, the Crane version gains 2 PH, 2 ARM, 3 BTS (although that also comes with the hackable trait, so it's not really a bonus), and a true second wound instead of NWI. However, in exchange, Adil actually gets worse at dodging, losing Dodge+3 (meaning that PH bonus is actually a loss when you consider his armament). He loses his para CCW, which makes him much less interesting as a CC profile, as well as much less threatening as an anti-CC fighter to boot. Once more, we lose a burst from our nanopulser, and lastly, we also lose the option for our CoC profile. So between the two, it really looks like we're losing some of the best and more interesting tools that both of our base profiles get, and in exchange get a mess of the weaknesses of both. That mono CCW will certainly be useful for dealing with TAGs and heavier targets in N4's current meta, but MI Adil already does that better with the ability to mix in the Para CCW to all but guarantee his success in neutralizing whatever needs neutralizing, and makes him basically untouchable by anyone that would otherwise challenge him up close. As a gunfighter, Crane Adil is worse off than a regular Crane, losing the X-visor that would allow him to play at normally inadvisable ranges. He brings breaker ammo to the table, but we already have ample access to it in the form of regular Adil and Zhanyings, who are both more likely to find space in a link. Worse yet, losing the Chain of Command ability is a huge drawback to the reason you'd even pay the premium for Adil in the first place. Crane Adil does bring some extra durability to the table, but for a trooper that is otherwise worse in every other capacity, is that really worth paying 10 points more (assuming you're paying for the CoC variant, a whopping 13 points more if you're not)? I really am having trouble trying to justify that hike. Sure, you get Veteran on an HI, but regular Adil also has the option and doesn't even have the vulnerability that would make it most necessary in the first place. There is a tiny niche to be found in Crane Adil having the option to be a Lt with the veteran rule in your army, but that's also a lot of points to pay for a unit who's a step down at everything else while still wanting to move in real close to actually do anything, especially when you could just invest in Chain of Command for the extra insurance (and in taking him, also losing the option to take one of your CoC troopers). We also get access to tinbots for our Lts, so that can also help. Moreover, you end up downgrading to a WIP 13 Lt, which can be pretty painful with some of the scarier alpha strikes out there and ISS' general defensive vulnerabilities. Ultimately, I really just don't think Crane Adil is a worthwhile addition to the game as he is, offers very little of value to ISS; and obviously even less to vanilla Yu Jing, where even the regular Crane isn't particularly useful. So, how do we make him useful? Additionally, how do we make him thematically interesting and in line with his portrayal in Betrayal? Now, granted, I understand that nothing I say here will really have much of an impact on what, if any change Adil's Crane variant might see. Regaining CoC and his Para CCW would go a long way to giving him some value, but of course we'd be looking at a significant point increase to match. Considering his final duel with the Speculo, it's actually kind of surprising that he doesn't have Berserk or Dogged. I would have thought that would be a pretty good approximation of how that fight went (that said, if Crane Adil were to get Dogged, I'd advocate his regular profile replacing NWI with it as well). That said, the problem with using a Crane for a character is always going to be the fact that we're working with a pretty expensive base chassis to begin with. I get that designing around that is difficult, and I really don't know exactly how I'd approach a solution. But if we're going to get a character like this, I'd like them to actually be worth using. What do other people feel about Crane Adil? Is there something I'm missing that makes him a lot better and more interesting than I have appraised? Hell, how would you fix this mess?
Crane Adil variant should have never existed. It's a nice model, but a Crane platform was never different enough to warrant an alternate profile and could have been easily playable as regular Adil. As for what Cranedil has going for him, the big thing would definitely be his Veteran. Ignoring Isolation means he Resets out of IMM-B from E/M on 10s, which is significant with E/M and Oblivion being bloody everywhere in N4. He's also got Specialist Operative and can still fill the LT spot; on a Crane you have to take a Hacker to score and that can't be the LT and loses the X-Visor. Yes, that's a narrow field of use, but it's there. As for how to fix this mess? See paragraph 1. Adil was never a character that could change enough to warrant a second Unit entry. Kick him out and declutter Army until someone at CB actually has a good idea for once, instead of just hamfisting crossover products into every nook and cranny the game has.
I think your main issue is that Adil doesn't differentiate himself enough from a Crane, and not having played ISS I can't argue that point, but I do feel that as a specialist, sensor, veteran, CC-capable, durable LT, he fills a pretty unique role. He's hard to assassinate, he's immune to isolation, he's got sensor for killing camo, and he can actually use that LT order to accomplish objectives. Maybe beside the point but I'd love a profile like that in IA.
You've got Qiang Gao in a Fireteam for the useful Veteran LT bit, but the Sensor and CC would be handy for IA. Less so for ISS, where Cranedil is actually found. On a weird side note, I think YJ is actually the second-worst CC army in the game now thanks to lack of CC Special Skills aside from Martial Arts and limited methods of reaching engagement range. Only PanO has it worse thanks to the total lack of Smoke and rubbish deployment options.
Cranes are assault troops, and the Veteran, No2, and Specialist on Sensor profile make him a lot more appealing than a normal Sensor crane. This guy's going to be super useful for killing nasty camo targets, especially Cutters, Sphinxes, camo HI like Daofeis, etc. The Breaker rifle will be super handy against skirmishers once you're revealed them via Sensor. And Veteran is actually huge for any close-assault HI trooper now that Oblivion is bloody everywhere. Against any opponent who loves hacking especially Nomads, plus Jammer-loving Varuna, YJ/WB, HB/Haqq, or White Company, this guy is an auto-take over the Crane for the Vet skill alone. The monoweaon is a bit annoying in making it harder to kill basic skirmishers in CC, but meh, it'll cost a second order maybe. You're not going to CC those guys anyways. Sure he could have been better, but the toolkit is still useful.
I've got three regular Cranes already. Not going to lie, I'll probably paint Adil up and use him as a regular one as well. It's funny, because even Giraldez painted Adil's Crane model with a blue, supposedly DA CCW. It's like he knew. Well, our smoke access has taken a huge dive with the change to LGL rangebands. You basically have to have a 5-man link bonus for Celestial Guard smoke to even be usable. That hits doubly hard in ISS. And then you have Jing Quo, who is hot trash, and Liang Kai, who left his smoke grenades at home. Taowu isn't bad, per say, but ISS runs super tight on points, I find, and Taowu not even being able to join a link makes it very hard to fit him anywhere. The last thing we need is more short range solo pieces that start in our DZ. MI Adil is interesting because he's one of the best CC fighters in the game once he actually can get in. Para CCW with his kit makes him an absolute beast for shutting down pretty much anything else in a fight. Of course, his problem is the work needed to get into there. Yu Jing close combat functions a lot like Yu Jing hacking. A lot of strong individual pieces, but piss poor ability to get them where you want to be in an aggressive fashion. In general, our lack of efficiency really bites our CC potential in the ass more than anything else. I'd definitely agree that overall we're one of the weaker CC factions, although I wouldn't consider that in itself to be a major problem. That would all be worth considering if he had foward deployment to make up for the loss of the visor. He's also the only Crane that could potentially fail a sensor sweep, sadly enough. WIP 14 or bust. Really, regular Adil does everything you've mentioned already, just better and cheaper.
Spoiler Funny thing is, he's possibly the only living thing on the planet that survived a wound from a monofilament sword. :-D
Anything with total immunity does that. I'm sure that mcmurder took alot of mono hits during his mad rampages :)
MI version doesn't have Veteran, which is the key point. He also doesn't have ARM 4 or BTS 6, or a second wound (or Shock Immunity for his NWI). The HI version remains a Crane that's safer to do close assault with thanks to being harder to Oblivion or Jam effectively. That's useful, and makes the profile worth it. Until I get the actual model, I'll be running the Giraldez painting-book limited Crane as Adil, pretty stoked to have a really good use for that!
As a PanO player - I know the situation with bland characters all too well. It helps when you change the approach a bit, and instead of a very bland character you look at it as a subset of its original unit. This approach helped me to change my view on Bipandra, Quinn, and from non-character examples - Infirmarer and Tensho.
If you don't take CoC then MI Adil actually has Veteran and sensor. Not only he is unhackable, he also doesn't care about em and jammer at all. You lose 1 arm 3 bts (way less useful for mi with veteran) and no real 2nd wound and shock immunity. But he is as good at cc and shooting, better at dodging and cost less. I'll take MI everyday. Edit: with the change to crits ap ammo is way more useful now and people will most likely try to bring more of it. In that case 3 and 4 arm is the same. And against breaker for example HI Adil has 1 more effective bts. Not that big of a deal after all.
Okay, good points. It's just down to the second Wound in that case, and whether you play to try to draw attacks onto unsuitable targets (which is why I usually take very-tough units, as an orders soak to sap opponents' orders into unsuitable but tempting targets). For example I like to put Sensor units in with a nasty Visor troop, and the Adil HI/Hsien MMR Tinbot -6/Zhanying Hacker haris is a really appealing setup. In that case I would put the Hi version of Adil in the list, because I -want- opponents to spend orders trying to hack him with that hard Firewall modifier. For me, if the list isn't super tight on points I prefer slightly greater durability. This being ISS we are discussing, very rarely am I not going to hit 15 troops (Kuang Shi, still a great order battery!). In fact, this conversation has just helped me make up my mind about my list for tonight. Adil HI/Hsien MMR/Zhanying hacker haris, comin' right up! :D
CoC Adil has Sensor, it is Specialist Operative (and Veteran) that is removed on the CoC profile. @Savnock that Fireteam seems a bit short on ranged firepower in my book, for its price. Might still be well worth the time and effort, but might I suggest a Crane HD + Hsien MMR + Zhanying MadTrap? I think the Stealth shenaniganery still works with the Crane able to force enemy Hackers to respond with Reset against a B2 WIP 14 Oblivion, with bonus MadTraps if you please.
Oooh that's nasty. Okay I'm going to try that one for sure. It would be opponent-dependent, with the likelihood of incoming Jammers being the main determinant (in which case, still gonna go for Adil for the Veteran to soak Jammer orders).
Then why would you ever take a Crane MR? All the discussion about Nourkias has reminded me that half the Characters with ties to a unit released or remade in the past year are just flat better (or worse) versions of their base unit, which was apparently enough of a problem to kill Toni over, but not enough that they didn't make the same mistake with the Umbra who killed her. No, if Cranedil needs to be such a special honking snowflake that he gets two Unit entries in the space of a few months, he needs to be different in my opinion. First off, no Sensor, no Triangulated Fire, those are Crane things. Adil is an experienced warrior and supremely skilled close combatant, so he keeps the Veteran and CoC instead of LT and combines both his Cranedil Kinematica and his Lamedil Hyperdynamics so he can actually close to range reliably. He keeps his Para CCW from Lamedil for scary targets, gets CC Attack[Shock] and an AP CCW. Swap the gun from a rifle-range option to something quirky and cost-effective like a Light Shotgun and a little FD[4"] and you're done. All of a sudden, you've got yourself a nice simple Specialist Rambo who can kick in the faces of DTW screens quickly and safely between active Dodge and crippling CC modifiers, being especially good at dealing with Warbands without trading Wounds thanks to Shock while still having the bite to take down big guys. Most importantly, he is not just a Crane with an upgraded or downgraded loadout, he is actually worth a spot on the roster thanks to having a properly altered kit and role. There's a ton of ways to do this, I just wished they'd actually picked one instead of giving us this dull amalgam- or even better, just gave us a different Character or unit instead of reusing the same one and eating valuable design space for no reason. I really hope this stinker of an idea isn't why Cranes were kept back at MOV 4-4, unlike just about every other HI in the army.
I don't think this is accurate. Define how you use CC in an army that you view as CC competent but not peak JSA tier.
Minor aside about Toni as a character - I think the biggest issue is that with a TAG character, model costs pretty much guaranteed that you did not have room in a list for more than one Tikbalang.
