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3rd Offensive Book Feedback - constructive with love

Discussion in 'News' started by lord farfhocel, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. lord farfhocel

    lord farfhocel Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Hi Everyone! I just got the new book and like everyone else I am digesting it and would like to start this thread as a way to inform CB of potential fan feedback. I welcome everyone to help me enrich this with a discussion, I would only ask for the following:

    Only genuine, constructive feedback. This is not bile, trolling or pouring salt. The whole point of this is to make the next books better and our game more awesome. Please respect each other and the CB team behind this book and all others.

    Also I offer full disclosure about myself before I start airing my feedback:

    I am with infinity since the beginning, I am a huge fan of the game, the fluff and everything around it. I observed how CB through wise business practices and customer friendly attitude managed to build a fantastic fanbase and a strong market position despite GDubs' dominance. I cannot overstate how much I love this game and I want CB to succeed. I come as a friend and give my opinions form a position of support and endorsement.

    Now in order of magnitude:

    1 3rd offensive maps:
    [​IMG]


    I do not think that keeping the landmasses black was a good idea. I don't know if it is just me, but this really messes with my brain. The Syldavia map takes the cake (page31) as it took me a while to convince my brain that I am NOT looking at a star system map. Look at the N2 map for comparison.

    [​IMG]

    2 POINTLESS FILLER

    Pages 85, 87 & 89 full of yu jing colour schemes. Come on! This is just like filler in GDubs codices! We can do better! I am sure you had more art available, if not ask the many talented people on the forum, I am sure they'd contribute. This constitutes 1,5% of the book! (second time in a 200 page book after Uprising's pages 52-54) This is just lazy. If there is a fan demand make it into a downloadable PDF, but don't shoehorn it into the book, cause it is repetitive and just so not us.


    3 PAGE 64 THE FACEPALM OF TECHBEE <MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE>

    This is the most important issue for me with this book. Infinity draws heavily from manga and anime, we all enjoy fantastic representations of our miniatures in art. We all see that even fusilier Angus is a beefcake and almost every female character is attractive. We all want it and we all agree for this suspension of disbelief. (obesity in Human sphere only bothers one Yuan Yuan, Joanna wears BREAST plate and every Ariadnan winter outfit is sexy-winter tight) But why did we give this art a full page? It is overly sexualised, probably drawn just for the kicks (an engineer in underwear) and relatively low quality and borderline vulgar compared to other illustrations. Hell, if you wanted that damn tech bee there, put the magnificent conversion of Squallo there. The one made by angels from bootleg and tag part. This system is great and many women and girls (just age) are getting into it, why the hell are we doing this? I started as a happily single nerd in N1, I met my wife and now 15 or so years later we have two Nerdlings. My wife is a Nerd and a fan and Smart, Kind and Beautiful woman (who is not standing behind me now! :P ), she digs it and digs US, But I cringe before showing this off to other Femnerds. Women bring so much to the hobby, we are so much better now and I am getting my kids on board... There are amazing arts with female characters p: 68 (the best!), 119 (even Chasseur), 142,146, 168, 174, 175 etc. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT.

    To sum up: This book is amazing, our art is better, our miniatures are unparalleled. We have an amazing, inclusive fanbase and a new generation of nerdlings is being raised and are joining. I want Infinity I can proudly show to my female friends. Sure there will be stylisation, self aware jokes (like Bostrias Leila Shariff KHD joke, and the Bostria 'thank you for coming' joke to a female player at Gencon) these are great. We all enjoy the human form, and we know that sex sells. But sexy can be beautiful and cool. Just not this, this is MGS fem sniper rubbish, there is no spinning this. Please, we are better than this.



    We are, just look:we can traverse the line.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. eciu

    eciu bloody vanilla

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    Great thread. I agree mostly with all points (especially 3rd one). I also think that the whole TechBee idea is really ridiculous and "meh".

    2nd point (IA paint scheme) is not that "dire" as it's a new army with some new colors, so I would pass it as "acceptable".


    I'm still not that deep into the book (around page 60) but so far:

    - there is a lot (for infinity) of new art which is great. Art is different (artstyle wise) which is good as probably everyone will find something for them, though some of the arts are suffering from very obvious and very bland "copy&paste" (I'm talking about Kamau snipers in PanO art (one with Helots) and 4 Zencha standing in a row in Yu-Jing section).


    Also: a big dissapointment for me was a "Carmen" comic. It's "line" is really good, but this ultra-short comic lacks of any meaning, idea or anything to actually deliver. If you are looking for a good&short comics please do check series done for Darkest Dungeon, example attached:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  3. eciu

    eciu bloody vanilla

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    Also kudos to CB for actually pulling youtubers to cover 3rd Offensive.

    GMG (with a help of Cooler) review and opinions on 3rd Offensive were great (and excellent & much better than "the other, GW studio" could do). I've saw also VaulSC doing some coverage over it.
     
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  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    On the topic of colour schemes, that's actually something people ask for with a decent frequency, not sure I'd class it as filler, if they needed to inflate page count they could just reprint profiles :P
     
  5. bladerunner_35

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    Thanks for the review. So glad I didn’t buy the book.
     
  6. antox717

    antox717 Member

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    Can't comprehend, @bladerunner_35 ... So glad you didn't buy a 200 page book for 4 pages of "subjective issues" (did not see the techbee art and some people digs on official colour schemes) and some difficult-to-decipher maps (black and green because it is so technological, i presume). I'm the first who did not buy the book, but if the issues are only those mentioned, i'd say cb has done a pretty great job. Sorry for the off topic.

    p.s. wooops was forgetting about carmen comic issue. Those darkest dungeon pics are pretty great, but the topic i imagine is a little more simple to portrait (desperation and regret are pretty ..... common?... themes). But did not buy the book so can't say. Outrage was pretty fun, however.
     
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  7. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I still don't like the Tech Bee, agree with you there.

    The maps and colour schemes were cool for me, fair point about the landmasses being the same colour as the sea mind. The scenes some people really like thoug, gives them inspiration.
     
  8. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the maps - the old ones were better to look at and clearly show what is land and what is sea.
    I not agree with the color shemes. I don´t feel they are fillers - I don´t feel the book needs fillers, some graphics are a bit splashy but it has enough amount of text to go through as a book to read. The layout is way better then "Uprising".
    I not fully agree with the tech bee. My tought was something like "hmm, is it necessary to print her so big?" It is not that I not like lightly clothed sexy girls doing sweaty work ... that artwork itself is not the best. The breast look like silicon balls and the lack of clothing is only a smiled joke compared to her job. The real reason was not to fill the page, but to show, she is a news also, she only was not fitting for the uprising ;-)

    But for me her pic is not a main issue for me. But I agree, that this dull pin up is not getting us more female fans.

    I like the small comic pages, but I dislike that I can not get whole comic of this stuff - where is it CB, I would buy it! There is soo much potential it it. Splitter Verlag in Germany will distribute it - just give them a call.

    Oh and before I forgot it: The Niemands Zone is called Niemands Zone and not Nimads Zone becaus it comes from Niemandsland. Is this a typo (than its a very bad one) or would they create some unique word?

    And: Typo in the rules section p.184 first example: Aspara has Wip 14 not 13
     
    #8 archon, Dec 2, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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  9. eciu

    eciu bloody vanilla

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    I liked Outrage, no issues there ;) I'm just severly dissapointed by so called "comic" in 3rd Offensive book.
    Ok, but now check how much of a story (even if not exactly unique or complicated) this single panel gives you.

    I will gave exact example with yet another DD comic panel:
    [​IMG]

    So:
    - There's a Lady in the bottom of debt spiral
    - She's is being evicted.
    - Apparently her current status has a lot to do with her once rich husband.
    - She's "not happy" about him.
    - Pushed too hard she finds a solution to her current problems.
    - We see a transision from "high status aristocracy" to "just a tomb rider", in a typical human fasion of "a (wo)man pushed to the brink of his/her animal nature"

    And this is a single panel.


    In case of Carmen we have:
    - Lady likes music.
    - She has overgrown dog.
    - She played too much Half-Life.
     
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  10. antox717

    antox717 Member

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    eh, it's quite the common issue...
     
  11. lord farfhocel

    lord farfhocel Well-Known Member

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    So... thank you for all your support and voice.

    1 @bladerunner_35 I never said that this book is not worth the money, from my limited reading, I find it more interesting than uprising, because of its broader impact. My issues are not deal breakers, just snag, snag and face palm.

    2 @archon I understand the fandom wanting more than the standard operating procedure armies (PANO-BLUE, NOMAD-RED, FIRE-BURNS! said Frankie). This I think started back in N2 HS when they published schemes of MO as different dossiers of the MO starter. Here's my point, CB cares for fans so much, they provide profiles, army app etc. Why not do a pdf called Uniforms and Banners of Human sphere. Why not? Put 2-3 sentence intro per sectorial and vaya con dios. Heck, go for broke, show corporate colors like, mototronica, Magna obra or those gits from Meteor a Corp. That would keep me interested. Better than this, especially since retired armies can become historic patterns...

    3 moreover thank you for understanding my biggest snag @archon perfect sum up, turn that shabby tech bee image into proper pin up... that would solve it... but alas

    4 outrage rules, hope we get more projects like that
     
  12. bladerunner_35

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    @antox717 If you have trouble comprehending I would be happy to clarify my reasons for you in a pm. Just shoot me a message and we can have a heart to heart about sexual objectification in Infinity. ;)

    @lord farfhocel I was about to order but didn’t. I feel the fluff just isn’t that great but have been buying the other books to support CB and out of habit. That Techbee is a dealbreaker for me so great to know about it.
     
    #12 bladerunner_35, Dec 3, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  13. Smiler

    Smiler Well-Known Member

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    I've not dug into my copy properly yet but at a glance the uniform scheme pages are some of my favourite. It's the kind of universe building that really helps tie the hobby side of the game into the background and inspires me to do themed forces. I really like the idea of them releasing a PDF along the lines of "Uniforms of the Human Sphere".

    One thing Infinity doesn't do as well as other games IMO is the idea of "your guys". The background is often more of a top down, analytical view (though done in universe with the influence of propaganda which I like) and I feel it makes it harder to engage with and come up with personal stories for my forces.

    CB is definitely getting better at boots on the ground type stories and background and showing off fluffy army schemes is a simple way of helping visualise the world and finding a place in it.
     
  14. antox717

    antox717 Member

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    @bladerunner_35 finally found the image, i think. Google be praised XD It's the standard pose of the mini, right? Now, without the necessity of heart to hearth talk, i admit that i can be, how can be said in english.... "hardened"? "bulletproof"?? against this level of objectification because i watch anime shows and we all know how can those japanese/nowadays asian artists can be. And infinity pulls heavily from this content. Let's say tech-bee is bad but Cindy Aurum from FFXV could be worse (because i'm a Druze ;) ). And i know plenty of girls who play/played FFXV. That said the art is lackluster at most, big white page if i understand correctly.

    But as i said i admit it can be my "tolerance level"
     
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  15. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    And it is worth noting that in Japan, many women like character designs like that and consider them cute and/or sexy. Take a look at Bayoneta, a character designed by a woman.
     
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  16. sevsterino

    sevsterino Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't disagree more. I love those schemes and i am planning to paint few miniatures using those. Keep them coming CB
     
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  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite understand... you hate the Tech Bee as vulgar, and then immediately follow it up with a "I really like this Marlene panty shot art!"

    I'm getting mixed signals here.
     
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  18. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    @OP

    Did I understand this right? That you are complaining that some female artwork is too revealing or sexy to you? I can tank this whole thread in so many ways. Lets just forget this thread ever happened and look the other way.

    @CB

    You guys rock! We love you! Thank you for this amazing book and adding to an already amazing game - if not the best TTMG ever created. More sexy girls! The sexier the better! I'll give you my money! :)
     
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  19. Melchior

    Melchior Well-Known Member

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    Book looks great and is a overall nice Product, Techbee is so terrible in many ways. My PanO Tags will use the Karkata, which comes with the Danavas which is sexy too, but a great sculpt without the 'weirdness' the techbee is.
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I find strange they published a scheme for the Guijia (who has been mentioned as "meh" in Invencible because of all the other options) and the Su Jiang (which is not even in Invincible!!!!), using the Mowang and the Zuyong would have been more appropiate, I think.

    Personally I had no time yet to read the book, but I'm please with the physical quality of the spanish version, good paper, good ink, and good cardboard. We'll see if it resists a full week of being read in the tube, and about the content.
     
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