I have about $10k invested in this game, between minis and terrain. Hell, just in civilians alone I have about $1200 (3 trays of 40 models at $10 each) I'm still really fucking tempted to light an enormous bonfire and post it on youtube, even though I would be much better off selling all my models.
I have mixed feelings about this comment. See, this is exactly the kind of exaggeration that makes it hard for other side to take upset YJ players seriously. What you've said will be true for some players, but others might like what happened, majority will be indifferent. This is blatantly untrue. Almost every decision, change, or lack of change on CB's part was met with at least some criticism, sometimes to fanatical degree. This, on the other hand, I agree with. We might disagree, but this shouldn't stop us from respecting each other.
Who again in turn are vastly outnumbered by people who used to buy JSA, like the new models, now going to buy even more. I was talking about the forum as a sample size. Ofc there are people in the "background", but there are both types of people there. And most of these background people are going to be quite indifferent rather then being invested in the story and having it influence their purchase decision. I am pretty sure most honest JSA fans would say YJ got seriously shafted in the story and it could be written better. But that won't effect what they buy. Yeah some hardcore YJ player may leave but they were already a minority compared to the ones that sell... that's one of the reasons YJ got shafted in the first place. While the rest of YJ players would think about their investment and won't leave. It's very unlikely CB is going to lose more than win from this one. Ofc this doesn't change the fact that it could be handled better. But CB isn't losing from this.
If it could have been handled better then by definition CB is losing in comparison. But you know what, I'm not sure I fully disagree with you. I think there actually IS a high chance that at the end of the day this cynical and destructive marketing action might just give them, in net, more sales than they lose, even if I'm utterly confident they will lose measurable and meaningful amounts of sales and customers, it really COULD (though it is all speculation) be smaller than the sales gained. It still shits all over my Yu Jing collection and experience, it still does that to anyone else in a similar position to me, and by the sounds of things, largely due to the timing of red veil starters A LOT of people were at EXACTLY the worst point to split the list for their personal experiences. This still hurts a lot of gamers badly. That should be enough. For a company that wants to maintain a good long term reputation that had better be enough. And it wasn't and I'm sorry but this IS a big hit to CB long term reputation wise. Still they could learn their lesson (a bit), pretend it didn't happen turn around, make in net more sales and only lose those they've already offended and move on, probably only a small hit of extra caution in new collectors due to word of mouth, a small hit due to damaged communities, hits all all in all small enough to (hopefully, but it IS all speculation) be outpaced even by natural growth alone. The worry is they learn the WRONG lesson. CB making more money than they lose from this could actually be the worst possible outcome in the long term. Because then they're take away lesson from this very well may be that it worked and they should do it again, maybe more so next time. And you know what? You can kick your own customers and your own good reputation in the nuts for a quick short term sale and get away with it once or twice, but if you decide that's a good business model then eventually, in the long term, you don't have a reputation or a customer base left.
Well, I just got the book. I read the book. You know what is in the book? A description of a six month revolution in which the Yuandun division and part of the YJ command structure do 2 shitty things, and then the rest is a very abbreviated account of YJ units scrambling to redeploy and kick JSA over. It even mentions how they had to redeploy troops that were going to fight the CA, which implies they already had their hands full defending Paradiso. It accounts numerous Japanese defeats, even though the narrative is written from the POV of a very pro JSA source, and most JSA wins are 'they died bravely'. The only big 'hah fooled em' are the escape of the emperor and the initial attacks which all are dated August 3rd in the timeline section. Also, Steel wall was implemented Oct 25 'with international support' in the timeline, and only a few 'test runs' are mentioned in which they provided limited air cover over JSA airspace (and JSA air assets were involved). It also mentions how pissed Ariadna and other governments were at Pan-O for doing this. Several times YJ negotiates the save extraction of their stranded troops, which pisses off the JSA that Pan-O gave that to YJ (Likely to keep YJ from going nuclear). In the end, the book clearly states that YJ was pissed, that the JSA leadership pulled a long-con and waited to pull the trigger on it until they had an environment of public outrage against YJ, sufficient backroom support, and YJ having it's hands full with other issues. Even then, the only region in which YJ is shown as being 'over the top warcrimes' is the Yuandun, and the breaking of the dam, which was condemned by some half of the state army command. As for the martial law, it definitely describes it as brutal and unfair, but it isn't resorting to ethnic cleansing, and isn't implied as such - it's much more described as resembling the German/France occupations of each other where they cracked down on the slightest provocation, but didn't go out of their way to massacre everyone they met. There are indications of jackboot thuggery and poorly trained individuals being able to get away with murder, but no indications that there is a goal of removing the Japanese population. I guess that's my hot-take. It came off as fairly plausible, history has had plenty of 'perfect storms' of bad luck before, and I do think it didn't make YJ look like incompetent dorks, even if the fluff constantly was like 'the new daiyokai was really powerful and inflicted heavy casualties' because of how obviously propaganda those bits were. (And the timeline was written from a pro JSA/Pan-O bias, yet still made clear that YJ, despite being caught off guard, was able to redeploy and start beating down the JSA despite the interference of the Steel Wall, supplies being directly funneled in by Haqqislam, etc.) Also, there was a fluff bit in the book or JSA army box, not sure which, in which a Hassasin helped get some of the initial bad PR for YJ out, which indicates that there was interference by the other covert elements from the other factions to help JSA out. Also it says the Japanese public in Kuraimori were pretty prone to heavy resistance, so that might explain part of the jackbooted reply - YJ troops felt like the entire populace was trying to kill them because, on some level, they were. TL:DR : I don't think the sky has fallen, but I doubt that'll convince the really rabid haters - still, if you enjoy the game, I think you should be able to salvage something reasonable from it, it leaves plenty of room for further detail.
Yes that would happen in the long run if they were kicking their entire/majority of their playerbase. They are doing it to a very, very tiny fraction of their base here. So no, them running out of customer base probably won't happen anytime soon. Also yeah of course there is always a chance they will do it again. Wargaming writing in general is notorious for being merciless to factions that don't sell. CB is being benign in comparison to some others but they are indeed following market practice here... with plenty of success I might add. You trying to lock up the thread or something?
It effects somewhere next to everyone who plays a major popular faction. You are wildly misrepresenting the size of the minority here, even so, its a precedent, it's an escalating precedent from the somewhat less serious Exrah business, and with encouragement from enough fan boys or short term profit it very much just continues and gets worse from here. CB rather deliberately structure their forums to factionally Balkanize their fan base for a few (dumb) reasons, one is to divide us and turn us against each other so everyone imagines only their own personal factions matter and whatever another faction might be concerned about is just a fun joke. Lets be clear. Whatever the faction. If this is considered a success, YOUR faction gets split next, or the next after and so on. Hell I've see some suggest this is just step one in a plan to erradicate non-sectorial vanilla style lists period since yeah, it kinda does look a bit like sectorials are the preferred pet project direction. Oh just go away with this pretending you know jack shit about the actual net outcome of this. You are blindly speculating about results you probably will never be able to know for sure. This is just one of the reasons I can't disagree that they might make more sales than they lose. CB aren't going to tell me for sure, they won't tell anyone for sure, they sure as hell aren't already secretly telling you for sure before they even have a the somewhat opaque and incomplete figures that they themselves will need to make a guess as to what it all really means for them commercially.
Can you blame them for the forum structure? Isn't this model working damn well? Of course ANY faction can get screwed anytime if they ain't selling well. Imagine Nomad's and Yu Jing's popularity were swapped. Then we would repeatedly hear about Tunguska been a seriously immoral faction with plenty of dirty work. Then all you would hear all day would be Tunguska's evil deeds. You know the same way we hear about ISS now. The rest of the Nomads would never be heard of though we would know they exist. Then there would've been an "Uprising" style book on an Aleph faction boldly defending humanity from evil Russian hackers. You want to hear a real "guess" from me? Haqq ain't selling as well after all the resculpts last year either. So they have put RTF in the backseat. If sales dip further then Hassassins will be all the fanbase will be hearing about when it comes to Haqq. I am not pretending or even talking about the Uprising changes. This is not the first time CB has kicked a faction in the nuts, it's only the latest and biggest. They got rid of Exrah for multiple reasons and delayed Shas. They put Tohaa in a practical hiatus and imported their designs into Onyx. Later they made a tidy profit from Onyx. Then they put MRRF on hiatus and did great with USAriadna. Now they have become bold enough to screw with the lore rather than putting sectorial in a hiatus but the confidence and business calculation is coming from the same place. Historically screwing one sectorial for another have brought them a lot of success. Now they are aiming for the lore of a faction to pump up another sectorial. What you are seeing here is a continuation of the Onyx, USAriadna style release.
@Fyeya Why YJ didn't attack PanO when PanO put their units over its airspace before the 25th I have no idea. That's your main geopolitical rival invading. The fact that PanO is willing to kneecap a faction that's helping with the Paradiso front, and O-12 gives the ok, makes it come off like both of those factions' motivations are more "fuck Yu Jing" than "protect humanity."
This is an accurate summary of how I read things. I'm just quoting this to show how much people are largely just ignoring what other people are saying. This thread was never a conversation and never will be. People are angry and it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. I just hope you guys find something to be happy about soon. But don't expect it to be CB to come out and apologise or change what they've done. And I don't say that because they don't care, but because that might make a different group of people upset. Hopefully they learn from this and do better in the future.
Yes. The fact you think their opinion is worth less than yours is why these threads have gone on as long as they have.
Hahaha oh yup, we're just here to drink your salty tears. Nothing to do with a rediculous victim attitude. No siree.
I think these discussions had run their course around the point when the hard core extremist hater cabal decided that anyone who wasn't with them 100% in proclaiming CB as the devil and everything related to the Uprising as trash (and all of Yu Jing back into the past as tainted permanently by this storyline in the setting) were literally as bad as the "everything will be fine just wait and see" crowd (who have, at least, mostly had the honour to pack up and go home) and turned on those who had supported their more reasonable criticisms when this started.
This. I think the majority of ‘meh CB could have handled it better but paramilitary secret police are gonna mass-murder insurgents from time to time’ have just stopped paying attention. Yes I think the Aug 3 events are an implausible intelligence failure. But CB’s fluff has never been that plausible anyway. Honestly, my biggest issue is what this means for the overall balance of power in the Humansphere: it makes no sense from a BoP analysis that the minor powers assisted PanO/JSA against YJ. It’s an utter failure of Nomads/Haqq realpolitik. Although it’s plausible (but insane) if they view CA as the balancing power to PanO. As an aside: I’d actually like it if they played up the dark sides of Nomads. They come off as ‘the good guys’ a little too often (I mean they are, but they do get their hand dirty). Tl;dr it’s not the best, but it won’t stop me playing YJ/ISS (StarCo and the imminent arrival of Tunguska will do that).
Some of us expect better. Exactly - it's written as if the main concern for every actor is the treatment of the Japanese, instead of playing PanO and Yu Jing off against each other. And, to a certain extent, Yu Jing is written as if it knows it's been a "bad boy" with how it doesn't flip its shit when PanO attacks its assets in its own territory. So it comes off as a really childlike take on the events.
