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What would you ideal 'resolution' to the Uprising fluff be?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by stargorger, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    Hi all


    Ok so, I am NOT trying to open a huge can of worms, nor start a debate, nor re-hash anything that's already been discussed.

    I'm simply curious: for everyone who plays Yu Jing or ISS in particular, in an ideal world, if Gutier were to have an AMA tomorrow and say he would 'fix everything' and that 'everyone would be happy with the outcome' of the next fluff/news release, what would that be? What would that look like to you?

    I'm seriously curious, because I've written some short Infinity fiction and am considering writing a 'my own end' to the Uprising stuff, but as I don't play ISS OR Yu Jing at all, I'm interested to know what those most invested would 'ideally' like to see happen. I put that in quotes because I'm going off the assumption that fluff-as-written has happened. It's set in stone and cannot be retconned. So, short of retconning, what 'next step' would you want to see that would instantly heal all pain and make Uprising swallow-able? In your most perfect dream, what would the next fluff piece say?

    For example: does Sun Tze stage a coup, overthrow the Emperor, having found out that he and the top ISS officials were actually Speculo Killers? Etc. Tell me what would fix it, and I'll write it up :)
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    It was all a dream
     
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  3. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Eeeeeh.... That's hard.

    You could purge the Judiciary and the Party, and maybe that'd fix something? I guess?

    You could relegate it to the past, and instead write us some exciting frontier adventure, as a group of Zanshi try to surivive their six month training to become Guilang. We see their homes, their families, their reasons to enlist, their hopes and aspirations, their friendship, their hardships, their homoerotic tension, their deaths, because they are AVA Total and the Guilangs are AVA 2 so all but 2 have to die on the way.

    Or maybe an Austin Powers type of adventure with wacky Yanjing agents.


    But if you wanna write about the aftermath to uprising, I think Yu Jing doing some housekeeping, complete with the good ole execution and sending the bill to the family is necessary.

    After that, I dunno. What about rescuing kittens? That seems like a low risk (can't really get scratched when wearing Zuyong armor) high reward kind of PR job. Or maybe helping grandmas cross the street. I doubt a car is going to run over a Yan Huo.

    Like, aside from punishing the idiots that let uprising happen and the ones that made uprising worse there is little to do other than doing something that fucks the other factions super hard, and that's hard.

    I would stay away from "aliens did it, your sister was a Speculo" tho. That's a plot device that I will be very happy if CB manages to not use ever for major fluff changes.
     
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  4. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    I'd be happy with just having another part of YJ step in and force a resolution in KuroiMori - possibly trading the island for substantial concessions elsewhere, or arranging for dissident citizens to leave, loyal ones to stay, and the island to be renamed to 'not japanese territory island'.

    Basically, something that lets the practical and upstanding half of YJ shine a little. I personally like the idea of making a deal where those who want to leave can, and those who want to stay can, but that it is clear no more tolerance will be given to terrorist action. Basically, put the ball back in the JSA court for keeping the peace, and make the rest of the sphere look bad if they back terrorists now that YJ had given them a great opportunity to avoid conflict.
     
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  5. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    My broad strokes ideas:
    • The Japanese aren't just the Empire of Japan 2.0 with an Edo coat of paint. Don't make them fascists, don't make them Bushido-obsessed fanatics. Give them reasons for the split that don't just boil down to "the Kuge are the real villains" or "Yu Jing were vaguely mean to them in ways we never really quantified".
    • The Japanese split isn't clean, like the Kuge just Order 66'd every Japanese citizen. The narrative works better if we don't treat these galaxy spanning super-nations as if they were still a singular country with a singular culture. Because how much does a Japanese person living on Shentang have in common with someone who grew up on the Home Islands? Leave room for JSA loyalists, hell double down on there being secessionists and loyalists and don't remove the old JSA list from circulation. This honestly leaves more interesting cultural interplay between the factions and allows you to finally integrate the Yu Jing Japanese in deeper rather than trying to keep a rift in there that never really added much.
    • Instead of flanderizing Yu Jing, try re-iterating that the reason Japan was less integrated was more down to them wanting independence and special privileges over other polities of Yu Jing. It would help here to not only focus on Yu Jing's own diversity (something that is so often ignored in the text by making them just PRC expies), but to also explain what exactly the nature of the mistreatment of Japan actually was. Making them more like Puerto Rico in this whole thing would mean that you can have a meaningful conflict without having to immediately descend in to the kinds of racial and ethnic tensions that are usually not present in Infinity. Because race doesn't seem to have ever been the reason for this conflict (otherwise all non-Chinese polities would be getting treated poorly by Yu Jing as well, but they aren't) and making it central to this plot seems to be losing sight of the original tension in this conflict as it was presented in the core.
    • Keep the Cold War feel of the setting and don't have every single faction blatantly and openly oppose Yu Jing. Not only doesn't this not make a lick of sense (why do Nomads, Ariadna, and Haqq want to support PanO when they're still the #1 power, while looking to blacken the eye of the thing that largely keeps them in check). The smaller factions should be a lot more divided on the subject than they were and considering how things went for PanO in the later days of the NeoColonial War (that is, not great given Yu Jing's stronger fleet), PanO should still be weary of openly attacking Yu Jing for fear of retaliation (especially given that the Qingdao Report likely means they're in a better position now than they were back then). PanO should be waging a war in proxy with arms dealing and the occasional, deniable black ops unit showing up among JSA forces. The conflict should be kept localized and any external players in it shouldn't be acting openly against Yu Jing (I know this ship has sailed several times in the past, but I also don't tend to like the times the global campaigns and newer background have strayed in to open warfare instead of keeping it focused on clandestine action).
    • The ISS shouldn't be the focus past the pre-uprising stages of the campaign. The ISS are a paramilitary police force, not an army. While they would be instrumental in the opening stages (gathering intelligence, getting Kanren in to the secessionist operating structure, etc.) they should mostly be uninvolved in the actual conflict itself. The focus on the ISS just seems incongruous given the eventual scope of the conflict and mostly just seemed like a "well, it's the only Yu Jing sectorial, so may as well try to push its sales" sort of move. This would be a place to expand on the background of the Banner Armies and the Invincible Army, it's only logical (even if they aren't getting an actual army book). Further, having Yu Jing go genocidal is just so out to left field that it needs to go. Will the ISS be charging captured Japanese troops and sticking them in a deep dark re-eductation hole? Probably. Should they be blowing up dams, shooting teenage girls in the street, and making mass graves of Japanese citizens? No, they've never been bloodthirsty in the past and the conflict was never an ethnic one in the first place.

    Basically, my version would have the uprising mostly taking place in Sol, and more specifically on the Home Islands. The conflict would be focused more on the Home Islands (far from Yu Jing's seat of power) feeling like the monolithic entity could no longer ably govern them and that it no longer had their interests at heart. The opening of the conflict would mostly be around a bunch of high-intensity but minor skirmishes with secessionist terrorists in various parts across the sphere, forcing mobilization of Yu Jing forces to different theaters to contain the threat and protect the populace (including local Japanese). This could be done with largely distributed and compartmentalized forces instead of a big, overarching conspiracy. Once forces are distracted, the Kuge launch a concerted offensive on the Home Islands and a few other holdings that are out of the way and are able to take control with the help of some covert help on PanO's part.

    At this point, the conflict escalates and Yu Jing attempts to re-deploy forces to try to retake the Home Islands, but the spread out terrorist incursions they suffered earlier (some of it secessionists, some of it deniable merc actions, some of it perpetrated by criminal organizations like the Yuan Yuan, perhaps even some PanO involvement, albeit via deniable ops) mean they can only mobilize a smaller task force on short notice.

    From there, PanO throws their weight around with the O-12 and calls in some favours (possibly the results of their own clandestine actions to gather dirt on folks to get them to vote the "right" way) and manages to get a resolution to recognize Japanese independence passed in the interest of not wearing humanity out in a conflict against itself when the Combined are knocking at their door. Yu Jing are forced to pull out of the Home Islands and the conflict ends.

    The Japanese now have the Home Islands and a few other minor holdings around Sol and the Sphere, Yu Jing still have the loyalist Japanese who may even now be galvanized against the Kuge (a far-away power that cares little for them) and possibly finally integrated in to Yu Jing's melting pot (and that melting pot NEEDS to actually get more than vague lip service paid to it going forward), PanO gets a little bit of payback for the contents of the Qingdao Report, and in general we still get to move the plot forward and stop focusing on the kind of trite and tired China vs. Japan thing that has dominated Yu Jing's background for too damn long.

    This results in 1) a less blatantly fascist and stereotypical JSA, 2) a less evil and incompetent Yu Jing that actually gets to be shown as morally complex instead of just pitch black again, and 3) gives PanO a chance to pull one over on their closest competition by getting their hands a bit dirty and looking smart while doing it (without breaking previous setting conceits over the knee). Nomads, Haqqislam, and Ariadna can get some minor involvement on either side, but should be tangential to the main conflict.

    You still basically end up with a Codex: Japan sort of feel, but one that is more nuanced and less blatantly jingoistic (something that honestly needs toning down in the wargame's background). It even gives a bit of leeway for using the merc groups in different ways (rather than just all getting used against Yu Jing).
     
    #5 Durandal, Apr 30, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  6. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Something along these lines would be great.

    But, mostly, I just want to see some stuff from the Uprising which shows Yu Jing in a positive light.

    Tell me the story of a Celestial Guard who died protecting a loyal Japanese family from the Tatenokai. Tell me the story of a unit of Zuyong who held the line in front of a school, or a temple, protecting the people inside from Japanese fire. Tell me the story of a loyalist Japanese officer who went out in a blaze of glory to prove that not everyone of his ethnicity is a traitor.

    Tell me those stories...
     
  7. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    The Fahrenheit 451 option looks nice and comfy.
     
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  8. DFW Ike

    DFW Ike Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this: they need to tone down the "race war" aspect of Uprising. They can remove the old JSA list from circulation, but state something where Japanese members of those units who were still loyal to Yu Jing get transferred into the main Yu Jing army. So what if they get a background check by the ISS, but CB needs to prove that every person of Japanese ancestry isn't a robot controlled by the Kuge.

    Show me the conflict within a Japanese ZanYing Agent or Terra Cotta Soldier on Paradiso when this fight breaks out. Does he stay loyal to his country, or does he desert and join this terrorist movement to free his ancestral homeland?


    I think they need to take a few actions to make the "atrocity" part of the book more of a grey area.

    -Making PsycoCrane a Speculo Killer/Fiday seems like one way to do it: have him get caught by another section of the ISS (Just imagine what the Internal Affairs section of the ISS looks like).
    -Another thing they should do is have a Maya news show where you have the PanO representative stating that the dam was blown up by a Yu Jing Ninja, while Yu Jing denies all involvement (Was this actually done by a Yu Jing Ninja? Was it just a frame job? How exactly did the Haq Instructor of War Philosophy find out about this?)
     
  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    CA breaks through the naval blockade and establishes a second front on Acontecimento, with Shas establishing a presence on Varuna.

    PanO dispatches Blue Sea, heralding the Varuna release and containing the Shas incursion on Varuna, but the scope of the assault on Acontecimento expands and PanO is reeling from prolonged attack. PanO caves to public demand and requests that 0-12 send in a multinational defense force.

    ALEPH, to help restore balance in the Sphere, pulls some strings to have Sun Tzu and the Invincible Army spearhead the counterattack.

    The Invincible Army saves the day, rehabilitating Yu Jing's image within the sphere. They also maintain a number of standing garrisons on Acontecimento for "peacekeeping" purposes, permanently weakening PanO. The continued presence of the Yu Jing military on Acontecimento inflames PanO/Yu Jing sentiment.

    This sentiment eventually escalates into open conflict on Svalarheima, setting the stage for a massive, pointless armed conflict that will see both sides fully mobilized for combat.

    Yadda yadda Tohaa shenanigans, Haqq and Nomads do a thing to let them feel relevant, CA breaks through and invades Earth, Mary Sue Ariadna saves the day, then CB gives us a Fantasy tabletop game.

    Fin.
     
  10. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    I really really want that CB Fantasy tabletop game though.
    A skirmisher with swords n shit and proper rules, just imagine the possibilities.
     
  11. DFW Ike

    DFW Ike Well-Known Member

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    What if Mary Sue Ariadna fails to save the day, CA takes everything over, and in the path to Ascension creates magic and kills all the technology on earth, causing Infinity to BECOME a Fantasy tabletop game?
     
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  12. Devrailis

    Devrailis Well-Known Member

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    I've read through Uprising several times now just to make sure that I haven't missed anything and to see if my opinion of the narrative has changed.

    Your version of events is vastly superior.

    In my humble opinion of course.
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Are we talking "continuing on from the printed Uprising" or "rewrite Uprising"?

    If we're going to continue on from Uprising-as-printed:

    I'd start with the reigning Emperor suffering a terrible accidental fall over the stairs while drunk and accidentally dying. [ edit ] (Translation: was assassinated by the party for failing to maintain the strength and prosperity of Yu Jing) [ /edit ]

    The newly-elected Emperor then does a massive clean-up of the Imperial Service. Every Agent in the Service gets to defend their actions in front of the Emperor himself. Major league formal Courts-martial and public face recovery, which is quite frankly necessary to get the minor powers back on Yu Jing's side to be able to keep PanO in check.
    • A Celestial Guard or Zhanying who picked up the pieces after their precinct or barracks was destroyed will probably get a promotion (it's the classical Chinese reward for doing good work, read Judge Dee).
    • Agents who followed their training and acted to deal with the Uprising without killing everyone probably get to stay in their post.
    • Agents who have one or two not-too-egregious times of letting their emotions get the better of them, but otherwise followed their training probably lose some pay for several months (the US 'tradition' is half a month's pay for multiple months), and may also be demoted. I'd need to see what the traditional punishment for being a bit underperforming is in China.
    • Agents who never followed their training and let their emotions get the better of them will probably get to join the Wu Ming for a while.
    • Agents who not only never followed their training but also really made things worse get to be Kuang Shi.
    • PsychoCrane and the head of Shield Division (and the Ninja that flooded that city) get their heads mounted on pikes with their Cubes broken, as a warning to the next 10 generations that some actions are beyond the pale. And everyone that sees them can look up into their lifeless eyes and wave. Like this. *waves* Or spit at them, because their stupidity caused the entire Sphere to unite against Yu Jing, making Yu Jing weaker.

    I still need to get my copy of the book, so I can read through and come up with less-setting-breaking events (or just some events to add to the list).

    I haven't yet come up with any ideas for the Japanese, for either option.
     
    #13 Section9, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Modiphius makes the Conan rpg... might be possible to back-translate it into Infinity.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The 2d20 system doesn't really translate into the Infinity d20 'blackjack' mechanics very well.

    For an infinity-style fantasy system, I'd want to make as much detail as there currently is in the Infinity ranged combat system in the close combat system of the Fantasy game, and make about as much detail as there is in the Infinity CC system in the ranged combat system of the Fantasy game.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Hey, Guard might not be superfluous!

    I do like the idea of bows being terrifying since your only real ARO is to dodge.
     
  17. stargorger

    stargorger Well-Known Member

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    Holy bejeebers lol. Ok lots of good responses! Glad to hear from Section9 and Durandal and DFW Ike, was hoping you guys would chime-in :)

    So, yeah, I'm mainly taking the approach that the ship has sailed. The events of Uprising as-written are set in stone. I wouldn't mind a re-interpretation, or seeing some through a different lens, but I don't want to CHANGE/undo current fluff, just 'redeem' it so to speak ;)

    I'm also trying to debate whether a short story would work. I think so...I have an idea that involves a split between present and flashback, with flashbacks sort of tracking the main character's involvement with his ISS squad through the Uprising events, leading to some sort of crisis where he has to choose whether to obey his superior or not, and basically how it ended was what was up in the air. Hmm.

    Points I think I could easily incorporate (that seem to be important to folks):
    1. The multi-culturalism of Yu Jing is easy enough to do. Every guy in the squad is a different nationality. The evil Kenpeitai's racism is shocking and 'barbaric' in the eyes of the rest of the squad.

    2. PanO involvement was minimal and mainly clandestine. Was going to have them chasing-down a group of JSA at the end who escape into a PanO dropship of the Knights of Santiago, who basically stare them down, nobody wants to keep shooting and the commander basically says 'none of you mention this, I'll take care of it'.

    3. Most ISS (and general Yu Jing) troops do NOT like what they're being ordered to do. Bao Troops are primarily used and brought in to force the more 'normal' officers into line. Part of the flashback was going to be that the psychoCrane-type officer had, at the very start of the uprising, shot the main character's Japanese-ancestry girlfriend like, right in the middle of a bar with everyone watching, no warning. That would stick with him, and at the end he'd get his revenge, kill the Crane, then turn sort of expecting to get shot for killing his superior officer, but find that all the others had wandered off.

    4. Some sort of news report regarding the fate of the Yuandun division and a public address by Sun Tze in the wake of the Emperor's 'death' discussing how it was part of a coup attempt by the ISS extremists, who will now be punished (basically pull an Operation Valkyrie).

    @Durandal I do really like your alternate fluff idea, but I'd rather do something set at the end of the current events, to sort of back-redeem them.

    Any other key points I missed?

    Any suggestions for what sort of thing you'd like to see to 'fix it' (the Uprising) so to speak? :)
     
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  18. Eldritch

    Eldritch Well-Known Member

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    I far prefer Durandals version to any attempt to redeem, not so much Yu Jing, as a failed fluff event. Fluff event's shouldn't need redemption, and even if they can get it fan fiction and head cannon cannot adequately provide it for many if not most.

    But what fan fiction and head cannon can do is kick cannon material in the nuts because there are no rules so why insist on post facto attempts to redeem bad fluff? Just say "you know what, no, here is what really happened, ignore that other crap".

    Not to say I think it is remotely appropriate to for instance tell people they should ignore the official fluff and insert their own as required whenever official fluff gets this bad. But for those individuals that feel for them it is an acceptable solution, why on earth restrain yourself needlessly to respecting the thing you are trying to fix as unalterable?
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Naturalisation of Ninjas. The Ninja clan(s) still loyal to Yu Jing is hunted by the bigger JSA Ninja clans and would need some sheltering by Yu Jing high command. Additionally, leaving the Yu Jing Ninja clan in status quo of being a Ninja is odd to say the least. The whole point was to advance the story, so the remaining Ninjas really need to stop being Ninjas and become naturalised within the Yu Jing command structure. Arm them differently and call them Cike - they are now being trained as a military unit rather than a shadow clan/corporation, preferably also naturalise them to a specific sectorial.

    Yu Jingse heroes. Wuxia as the heroes of Yu Jing law and champions of the Yu Jing people. If ISS are order at all costs, these are law at all costs and regardless of who you are. Much like how Sun Tze was portrayed as the lone sane person, the Wuxia would shoulder that role as well in similar conflicts. This is a very simple way of providing both a moral anchor and a contrast between the good and the bad sides of the Yu Jing empire. It is important to remember that Wuxia aren't heroes in the particular selfless fashion of many westerner heroes, because the culture demands a selfless communal attitude to begin with.

    Looking beyond Yu Jing. The other factions really need to be dragged through the dirt. For the purposes of maintaining a conflict level that's somewhat even among the factions, a gang-up on Yu Jing mustn't be allowed to stand for longer than it takes someone to say "backstab". Focus needs to be put on why Haqq, Pan-O and Nomads don't trust each other to re-orient the players away from a us-them mentality that is easily formed when a specific group is pointed out as the bad guy.
    Pan-O aggressively seizing territory on Dawn is a good way of putting a wedge between Pan-O and Ariadna, but similar efforts need to be done between the other factions as well.
     
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Even just getting a couple profiles unique to Yu Jing and others for JSA would be really cool.
     
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