1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The future of Yu Jing

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    "Wait and see" was not my argument. My argument is that Uprising does not trump the rest of the fluff dealig with Yu Jing, just because it is the most recent. In three years time, we will have Yu Jing described in N4 or whatever pretty much the same way it is now, because the general archetype of the nation will probably not change. If you want to define Yu Jing, you need to take into account all related fluff is what I'm saying.
     
  2. Hjiryon

    Hjiryon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    101
    I'll respectfully disagree with your perspective, here.

    It has always been a pan-asian state, taking great pains not to be just China. The japanese have always been a hard fit and has demonstrated some of the problems of the system, but at its core, the faction drew from all of asia.
    That's never going to be the case again, unless they decide to gut JSA and return them to Yu Jing for... Some reason.
    And the idea of co-existince will life in the shadow of the systematic war crimes portrayed in Uprising, unless something is done to actively counter the Shield Division nonsense.

    Further, this has also destroyed specific aspects of Yu Jing. Mind you, ones I didn't use much, but:
    The "sneaky git" portion of the faction has been decimated and the melee-centric nature of it is literally no more, aside rom the Zanshi being more expensive than they should be (compare the current roster with PanO, and you'll find PanO has more melee specialist models available to them as things are post-split).

    This is not trivial. It is not an aside.
    It is a radical change to the identity of a faction, regardless of how much was written before it happened. To some extent it had to be, to facilitate the JSA split. The problem is, the lack of attention offered the faction post-split makes it an unequal parting.


    --- --- ---


    As a complete aside:
    I don't actually mind dealing with themes of war crimes, or genocide, or crimes against humanity. If I wanted boring neutral fluff, I'd be playing a different wargame, I guess. There are others who do mind this, and I can understand why.

    I mind seeing this play out in a manner that I cannot take seriously. The amount of grammartical and spelling mistakes in the recent tournament pack betrays a simple lack of effort, and sadly, the referenced Uprising does exactly the same: War crimes and excessive force is put into play here for the sole purpose of making the JSA seem heroic, and it is done in a one-sided fashion that makes the entire effort come off as the lazy way to move the fluff in the desired direction..
     
  3. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    I don't think we necessarily disagree here, so let me reiterate:

    The separation of the JSA is not insignificant nor trivial - far from it - but it is also not the defining feature of Yu Jing, contrary to what some people claim.

    Yu Jing is not just "the guys that seperated from the Japanese and commited war crimes in the process".
    The events of Uprising are and will always be only a facet of the whole that is Yu Jing.

    Regarding your second point, in terms of game mechanics you are right, of course. Yu Jing has been altered significantly - a fact that has been downplayed by certain people, backed up with sketchy statistics. For the time being, Yu Jing has taken a hit in order to give the newly formed JSA a leg up. I'm personally okay with giving it a bit of time to eventually get two more fleshed out factions, but I can totally see why people are angry now.

    As I mentioned before, I'm not quite done with reading through Uprising yet, so I can't speak to the overall quality. If it turns out to be the sales brochure for JSA that you claim it is, I will gladly join the riot :)
     
    Hecaton and Furiat like this.
  4. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    @xagroth none of those games or topics would disgust me? It's all a game and a fantasy and I can distinguish between it and real life. For example I was playing an rpg called Wraith, you haven't heard of it because it's my friends game he's made and been designing for years. Anyway in this game we are doing a rescue op for a person who is vital to beating a certain adversary. This VIP was on a train with civilians, kids included. Of course the train comes under attack and the train will eventually derail because the tracks were sabotaged. The bad guys end up putting up a better fight than we anticipated and ended up wounding our VIP. Our chance to escape came and we took it and didn't rescue anyone so all the poor kids died. I didn't feel bad for them because 1. They're obviously not real. 2. My characters motivation is to stick to the mission always. It's cold but gets stuff done.
     
  5. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    Also, while I appreciate the loss of JSA minis from vanilla is a bummer (I lost my tokusetsu and keisotsu hackers, alas) vanilla YJ is still really cool distinct from ISS. I actually don't like most ISS units, the only ones I use are 1 CG for smoke grenade launcher, the Hsien, and the Kanren, who fit quite nicely into vanilla.

    Vanilla is the only way to use my favorite units in the faction, in the guilang, the dao fei, the hac tao, and the zuyong, so in my eyes, vanilla YJ is still unique and quite fun.
     
    A Mão Esquerda and Alphz like this.
  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    Then we have the desensitization from videogames that make people so good with things like, I dunno, a combat helicopter's camera controlled HMG.
    Killing civilians and news reporters.
    And enjoying it.
    The video was in wikileaks. It caused quite the uproar, you know.

    Because those who think they absolutely, and without a doubt, can distinguish between good and evil, fantasy and fiction? The word, I think, is Hubris.
    The moment you stop considering the possiblity, is the moment you are open for a looooong fall. And if you are lucky, you will get out of there before something bad happens.

    As for me, I'm done. The next months will see if I'm done with Infinity as a whole.
     
  7. Hjiryon

    Hjiryon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    101
    I can't speak about the contents of Uprising - I'll pick it up at some point, I guess. So, to be clear, when talking about writing quality (not storytelling, but grammar), I'm referring to the recent tournament material. Otherwise, simply hearsay. I'd love your evaluation once you're done reading.

    Otherwise, it does sound like we widely agree.
     
    Knauf likes this.
  8. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    5,888
    Likes Received:
    11,260
    Yes, the Japanese nation is unable to even physically house to many people let alone feed them sending them "home" would probably collapse the new nation and create more deaths by starvation and disease than whatever happens in kuraimori.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  9. Eldritch

    Eldritch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    227
    Oh yes it is.

    For everyone who was trying to ignore the juvenile "Chinese still hate Japanese even in pan-asian future utopia!" fluff it VERY much is ALL they are.

    Because people like me were happily ignoring that dross until the rules and the sheer degree of how objectionable this is MADE us briefly pay attention to something we did not want to pay attention to.

    And so people like me have now paid attention to the fluff. The only thing it said was "Rar. Your faction is full of stupid mass murder assholes! Oh and we are pretending this is the excuse for taking half your models away."

    "hahah genocide, lulz!" was where I started and stopped listening to the fluff. And so yes, very much genocide is ALL that the faction fluff is to me.

    It may yet prove to be where I stopped playing to the game period.

    After all those (suddenly exclusively) Japanese miniatures I got tricked into buying as Yu Jing models turned up yesterday. I'm rather surprised by how VERY little enthusiasm I have for so much as assembling them.
     
    xagroth, Paris and Aldo like this.
  10. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    445
    From the RPG, I believe there is explicitly a Korean who is either a Pheasant or Crane. I believe it is safe to assume a multitude of ethnicities in Yu Jing uniform.

    That said, more obvious representation would be nice.
     
    xagroth, Paris and Shiwen like this.
  11. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    Deep breaths mate. It'll be ok.

    You could always contact CB or the shop you brought it from and ask for an exchange. Tip: try be polite and courteous, justified or not, anger won't get you very far.

    I suggest you take some time, maybe a little break. Maybe read some of the more established fluff about yu Jing to realise the recent stuff doesn't define them and is in fact mostly limited to a single division within ISS.
     
  12. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    ftfy

    If you choose to ignore certain parts of the fluff and then draw the wrong conclusions from those that don't appeal to you, that's your business alone and not relevant to the matter at hand.

    As for your new miniatures, I understand your disappointment even if I don't share it. If this is really that big of a dealbraker to you, you should be able to sell them without much of a problem.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  13. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    I 100% agree that if someone feels they can't fully detach or separate from violence we see in media and games then good on them for recognizing that.
     
  14. Eldritch

    Eldritch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    227
    I think you miss my point.

    Major fluff events are supposed to get the attention of people like me, who play the game but ignore the fluff and sell us on the fluff. It's supposed to make us more invested in the game than we were and draw us into spending more.

    Instead a major event was so mishandled it is actively alienating not only people who already didn't like the fluff but ALSO actual fluff fans. It is making people less invested and driving them away from spending more.

    CB's big event was supposed to jump in my face and teach me how awesome the fluff was to sell me on the game being more awesome than it is.

    Instead it jumped in my face and taught me that the fluff for this game is utterly vile and according to many also the excuse for me losing half an army in a game I play.

    That lesson is unlikely to be unlearned, in part because once you alienate someone hard enough from this sort of thing they stop listening, but it also because frankly it is fairly obvious that everything CB has contributed since has only rammed home the genocide angle time and time again and utterly ignored the very reasonable concern and outrage from the community. It's hard enough to listen to "sorry, maybe something else now" as the followup to "lulz genocide, half your army gone", but it's pointless if the follow up is actually just "lulz, even more ethnic cleansing death squads".

    This isn't just about the fact that I now perceive the faction as essentially exclusively genocide centered. It's because THAT is the fluff that CB forced me to experience. That is the backfired result of the big "look at me!" event that was supposed to sell me on the fluff and the game more. And above all it's about the fact that it is very, very, very hard to get second chances after pulling this sort of shit, especially if you don't even seem to be trying to get a second chance in the first place.
     
    xagroth, Paris, Furiat and 4 others like this.
  15. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    It only sounds like a handful of people are outraged to be honest
     
  16. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    445
    Comments like these and "Nothing of value was lost," only reignite tempers and drive people away.
     
    xagroth, Pierzasty, Paris and 7 others like this.
  17. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    I think only a handful of people are as enraged as eldritch, huanglong, and hecaton, but there are plenty of rustled feathers.

    Unfortunately some people have let their anger convince them of things, so they've repeated 'genocide' so many times that they think the fluff actually says that, when it is highly debatable if it actually does.

    Which really just comes back to, at this point, I don't think CB, or any of us, can win, because the trenches have been dug a little too deep and feelings have run a little too high - I can only recommend taking a day or two off, then going back and with an open mind re-reading to see if maybe the fluff is about a single unit of bastards, rather than the entire faction, and make up your mind then.

    As it stands, we're all standing on different hills arguing about why our hill is fine, but we never agreed what hill was the one we were going to be fighting over anyway - I don't support a genocide faction any more than eldritch or hecaton, I just haven't been convinced that is what CB wants YJ to be.
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    @Eldritch I think they legitimately see it as a matter of building JSA up, and don't quite get why people are upset that they tore Yu Jing down in the process.

    At the LVO, someone (I think @barakiel ) asked a question about whether or not old sectorials like Neoterra would be revisited and updated to the current standard. Bostria replied that they're more interested in having new releases attract player attention. I chuckled at the moment, taking it as a bit of a dry sense of humor, but now I dunno. If the idea is "we already sold the lion's share of Imperial Service/vanilla Yu Jing with the releases we put out, now let's torpedo them to bootstrap our new hot item," then that's a problem, and obviously incentivizes power creep and letting factions rot.
     
    xagroth and Pierzasty like this.
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,148
    Likes Received:
    9,666
    The officer in charge of the unit doing the fucking killing.

    We hanged most of the SS Colonels (SS-Standartenfurher) for the same reason.
     
    xagroth, Paris and Kallas like this.
  20. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    And this guy might get what is coming to him, in the end.

    We don't know.

    Thing is, we did that after we totally beat Germany, which is something I don't think YJ players want...
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation