That vantage point being you're own very biased perceptions. I don't quite see how you're elevated above the rest of us plebs? Unless you're talking about your own ego. Uprising's still going. Should I make a prediction now that you'll still be rationalising how CB "completely changed tack" because of you, should the fluff around these events turn out to be isolated and not representative of yu jing as a whole or otherwise turn out to be hyperbolic propaganda? Theres a campaign coming out about this whole event. I'll eat my words if yu jing are shown to be carpet bombing japanese centres from an unbiased source.
And the two are mutually exclusive how, exactly? Fluff laid out in N3:HS, continued in Uprising... funny how that works...
I'm not trying to leave a mark on this game, I don't even play in the campaigns. I just don't want to come to hate it some day. This is absolutely delusional. Whatever man, I'll see you at the this next goalpost.
Not exlusive, i talk about source of uprising, you say that uprising result of bad treatment of japanese, in my opinion uprising result of kuge grid, and they use bad treatment as pretext to uprising. In my opinion all this shit about bad treatment orchestred by kuge, i think they support terrorists, brainwash people etc. P.s no offence man, my english just bad
Thank you for the feedback! Civil Wars are terrible things. I think I've mentioned in this thread that my great-great-grandfather fought in the American Civil War, and the only thing anyone could get him to say about it afterwards was "that it was too terrible to talk about." I mean, hell, he moved from Maine to Washington state, all the way across the country, just to get away from all the people that he knew before the War. And all the families whose men didn't come back. So I do agree that some mention of awful acts is necessary (see also events in Iraq and Syria, Bosnia back in the 1990s, Central America or Africa in the 1980s and 1970s, Vietnam in the 1970s and 60s, and even Malaysia from 1960 to 1948. Could probably even include Korea from 1950 to 53 in that list). As @Space Ghost can tell you, COIN warfare is probably the hardest thing you can do in the military. The PsychoCrane's reaction is believable as a human decision. It's just not believable as a reaction of someone who has been trained in COIN and is trying to win. (Pretty sure Space Ghost will agree with me on both points) I very much agree with this. Had psychoCrane been previously presented in fluff as the most extreme loose cannon in the ISS, then it would have been easier to accept that he was not speaking for the entire Yu Jing StateEmpire when he said that. But the way it was presented, it came across as psychoCrane expressing the entire Yu Jing government's position. I'm sure that PanO and everyone else sure portrayed it that way in their news media. No, this has been some of the rougher language from CB. The fluff in the books is usually much better written than this. What first sucked me into Infinity was the models (I saw greens back in 2005 and said, "MUST. BUY!!!"). Rules and fluff were tied back then. About the time Human Sphere came out, fluff overtook the rules in importance. I mean, I was selling people on the game because I could say, "Haqqislam is the guys who said, 'no, no, no, my friend! Jihad is bad for business!' in the voice of the Arab trader at the start of Alladin." Or actually give the Zanshi a full point's worth of CC (which I think would be CC16 or 17)? Multiple problems here. First problem is that when the Kempeitai outed themselves, YJ should have doubled down on investigating officers wasting soldier's lives unnecessarily, and come down on them like a ton of bricks. OK, so that didn't happen, but it's one of the things that allowed the Kempeitai to take root in the Japanese Sectorial Army. Second problem is that police work, even the annihilation of a specific criminal organization, is completely different from counter-insurgency warfare. You can get away with scaring the hell out of civilians when you're stomping criminal organizations. In fact, sometimes you NEED to make the civilians more afraid of the police's response than they are of the gang's response. But that is the exact opposite of what you need to do to win an insurgency. I know I sure as hell would not play in a Treason tournament. Well, a good chunk of that is because the Gongcheng and Isheng were first generation. Simple: The Japanese still living in Kuraimori had an election to secede from YJ. YJ then violently came down on them because secession isn't allowed. Japan then mobilized troops to rescue their relatives. Kinda like how Crimea or the Georgia/South Ossetia operations happened.
It's going to take a whole lot more than repackaging or even discontinuing Kuang Shi to make Yu Jing choir boys, but if you do read the fluff a bit closer you'll see that CB managed to make choir boys out of Haqq, Pan-O and Nomads. Well, the first two being fundamentally religious isn't much of a surprise, but each of those nations bowed down to a human rights movement and put their political capital and financial gain on jeopardy in order to attempt to rectify a low key human rights suppression. Low key. What is described as how Yu Jing treated (past tense) the Japanese isn't even remotely as harsh as certain groups are treated with passive acceptance from other nations in modern society. At this point I'd also like to note that what we're reading in the narrative event is still not close to what the modern community remains passive about in spite of fairly extensive public uproar. And we're talking about certain factions in game that should have less scruples than the Russian government (*nods towards Syria*, which, by the way, isn't even the worst example you could find) So yeah, while I wouldn't want Grim Dark, it'd be nice if Yu Jing developed to a similar level as the other factions. Or if the other factions developed to a similar level to Yu Jing. Possible ways to move forward for other factions would be to alter the percentage of Ateks in Pan-O to be a sizeable portion of the population, introducing involuntary hormonal control operations to appropriate factions, increasing the number of political assassinations in Haqq, but above all and most important is probably clarifying that none of the actions by the other factions against Yu Jing were motivated by altruism, but by pure power-grabbing. Too long, didn't read? Summary: it's not just Yu Jing that needs to be developed further because of this event.
Two things First and foremost I would really appreciate if posters kept a less combative stance that would be vastly appreciated. Secondly I have to point out, to those that have not realised it, that many of the things you criticise and want be fixed have been finished and finalised, way in advance before Uprising was even revealed to the public and are unchangeable, if you see change it will not be here.
All it would take to appease a lot of us would be some more nuanced fluff that was, dare I say it, pro-Yu Jing. Perhaps some insight into the future of our faction? Because we're literally the genocide faction at the moment and that's likely to push away anyone wanting to ally with us. That's without mentioning pushing players away, I had no idea I was buying into a faction that's now defined by ethnic cleansing.
One day to catch up to! Seriously, I find amusing how every time fluff is released this threads go into "absurd speed" (sorry for the Spaceballs quote, but right now? I find that silly movie more interesting than YJ's updated fluff), yet the only official CB waves are made by Koni's (Praised be the Banhammer!) warnings when tempers get out of hand. The CA plot has become a desperate move to save the situation, but it has been so foreshadowed now that it would look like CB decided to cater to the playerbase. Which looks like they will go out of their way to avoid looking like they do... Nope. There is a BIG difference between being able to read a brain's structure (because let's remember that a brain works by forming physical connections between neurons) and writing data on a brain. The reading can be done today, and handwaving the Cube as able to read, or connected to a mesh of reading sensors on the cranium, is totally on the "tech like today, but more advanced", but the writing... I would understand some sort of comlog-affecting stuff, or some sort of "virus", but the Sepsitor ONLY works against targets with a Cube, with Teuton Knights being described as "they surgically removed their cubes to face the CA". So having a cube is critical for the sepsitor to work... which means that the sepsitor has to force a hack to the cube, and THEN make something "instantly" rewrite the brain. In Eclipse Phase there are two strains of The Virus that brainwash people: a digital one (that only affects people with Cyberbrains and digitized consciousnesses), which can also with enough time brainwash anyone using sensory input, and the biological one, that makes you something like Stukov and other Infested Terran. The main difference is that having a cube is irrelevant: if you have a sensory channel to the source, you can be "converted" (as in, you can see, hear, smell, or even taste or sense touch!); the only defense that seems to work against the "signal hack" (called Basilisk Hack, incidentally, since "if you see it, you're done for") is to go inside an jolly good NBQ suit inside a Faraday cage AND using a low resolution camera and audio systems that delay and de-coordinate the signals. Try fighting on that... (the other way is to be a Psychic... which there are infected people with a "no mind-control" version of the virus, with a set of advantages that turn it into a roll they are hard-pressed to fail). Not the data I was referring to, as logical as it is (it can only be found in great quantities in Bourak, after all, which means it must be a native species, or one adapted to help the resurrection), I was thinking more along the lines of how is it possible or easier to do the resurrection with Silk, and if it is possible to do so without. They used "big data" from the Army's saved lists. Of the latest 2 years or so. Which pointed that the most used units by Vanilla YJ were the ones from Red Veil... So with that, they could have said back in the day that Bakunin units were almost never used among nomads, or Acontecimiento/MO ones... (whatever is lacking from the Icestorm starter, I mean), aside from the reverend healer and the father knight. I refuse to play any tournament with this... I refuse to even assign an adjective to that. I understand that someone who spends most of the time inside their own head can get to a point of thinking those lines of background are cool. I can't understand that no one told that writer "get out more, stop outputting and start getting something from around that is not national TV series or newscasts". Or that the JSA are crazy enough to think Kuraimori is theirs for the taking, that they can succeed into taking away a piece of the allegedly second most powerful faction of the Inner Sphere. Or that they are, in essence, committing an act of WAR against Yu Jing if taken after O-12's recognition, giving YJ all the excuses it needs to crush them forever, since they have no excuse. Then again, it seems the whole Human Sphere is aligned against YJ, which for some reason keeps defending the human sphere. Like it was a member. So the CA has military presence everywhere in the Human Sphere? This has gone into unbelievable levels of "f*ck the fluff, it doesn't matter"... I won't play this pack, period. Which is kinda stupid, considering that the CA is at the damn door. It's like "oh, well, this is Helm's Deep, there are hundreds of thousands of orcs outside. It's so easy, let's spend the time between their arrival at the entrance of the valley and their start of the siege trying to steal some goodies from other people, they are just NPC's!!!", after which the hobbits are caught trying to rob Aragorn's blade using Legolas' knife, and they had a frigging treasure chamber with, among other things, half the bows on the fortress. The problem is, of course, how every single YJ-related product with fluff that has been published by CB since Uprising was announced was this atrocious, unbelievable, stomach-churning collection of gratuitous monstrosities. And having my faction (Aleph) either doing nothing, roll all over the mud, or doing a schizo-both sides choice is disturbing. From the Nomads, I expect some "let's get advantage of this", but Haqquislam are portrayed as defenders of humanity, and using their Hassassin Bahran as "removal of those who impede Humanity's betterment". If their idea of such betterment includes or tolerates this kind of civil war? Not the fluff that called me in. And new rules that do the same thing as old ones, but with a discount! Or broke the way rules work! And yeah, I'm talking about Fatality (n2) and Full Auto (the "mimetism not kinda"). Or Kerr-nau: specops with D-Charges, KHD with White Noise upgrade (so you are not forced to pick an Umbra Legate, Yay!), Pitcher and Plasma Rifle... not to call that optimized to the teeth is... well, missing the point. Literally EVERY new player who comes to the forum or to other players that I know of has been told to select an army based on fluff or looks. And people look me funny when I say them to look into the mechanics of the faction, so they select one they are comfortable playing (because no matter how much you do like power armor, if your style is of combo'ing "magic", Military Orders is not the place you will find that playstile). Oh, at least my position about KuangShi is "waste not, want not", so captured sepsitorized troops that cannot be experimented on (or that have been already) and cannot be recycled bodies for more deserving people, are extra Kuang Shi. The problem is that, of course, people centers on the "political prisioners" part of the fluff without considering that maybe those are brainwashed Japanese terrorists, instead of peaceful Buddhist monks peacefully asking for the Tibet's liberation. Remember that Haqquislam publicly and legally authorized the existence of assassins that go around killing people on other countries to silence O-12's protests because there was an illegal group of killers going around based on Bourak... I appreciate the gesture, but I wish it was me the one offering it :( Rationality logic says that if you can make an optimized list, any of your opponents can, but you don't know if they do. Since an optimized list has better odds than a suboptimal list to achieve victory, those who bring an optimal list will have advantage over those who won't. So the most rational course of action is to use an optimal list, because you will be, at worst, on an even field with your opponents... Given a balanced system and factions, that is. So, de-optimizing a single faction that is not over others is a move against game balance. Considering the amount of winnings YJ has obtained over the years... well. In truth, I think both factions' visible members are portrayed as monsters. I find nothing to empathize with the JSA, nor with the I-SS. It is a Treason tournament pack. That will sell all production, like Tagline, either to people that will want to play the new thing (and new scenarios), either to people speculating with the TAG's collectors value. He has been mentioned in an obscure part of the fluff, I think, as a Dirty Harry racist anti-japanese. I think, since it was mentioned in the morass that was the YJ 69page thread. In that regard, yeah. Coherent. All the other institutionalized brutality? I'm just recoiling in horror and thinking the Human Sphere would be better under the CA's managemet. Mind you, the I-SS started as the Emperor's solution against the Triad's too bold moves. How the Yakuza manage to move people on the narrative tournament's fluff around yet the anti-organized crime division is none the wiser is yet another black mark on them... No no, they are not there for the people. They are there to CONQUER THE LAND. To take Kuraimori from Yu Jing!!!! Please tell me it's just delusional ramblings of brainwashed cannon fodder -.-U Quoted the small part for ease. I agree that all factions need to be developed to the same level. Placing them all as monsters? No thank you. Right now, YJ and JSA have both exceeded the level of tolerance I am willing to give to a game. If the other factions were to be brought down to that same level, so everything is as Grimdork as WH40k? Bye bye. The setting was supposed to have a scale of grays. Not Grey-and-Black. And grey has so many variations, the mind can sometimes get color while looking at it. I had a greyscale TV when I was a child, and I'm talking from experience. That can be said from printed material like the Uprising book, and I agree there. The other two PDF books? (Yandun and the Tournament.) They had enough time to edit the fluff there so as not keep adding fuel to the flames, at least, leaving open an option for the future so the situation could be normalized. Mind you, if the tournament pack includes a written copy of the PDF fluff, they could ask people to forget it and use what has been provided in PDF, but keep the missions. I was going to pick YJ next, and a box of Hospitalers or something from MO to attempt a conversion into some Arthuric Knights. Guess how many CB products I have bought lately? Bit & Kiss (february I think), Kerr-nau's from the Dire Foes box (the Ariadna player got the HVT), and that's it, I'm even trying to find reasons to buy the Tunguska starter.
I am afraid that even with digital products, the time to edit the fluff has gone quite some time now, release windows and what is been worked right now along with deadlines to deliver it means going back to rewrite finished product is not possible, or really, really hard. I think it is better to accept YuanDun as an exceptionally harsh and driven division of ISS that goes way beyond what normal ISS would go and their spotlight as the indication of how far away from the pack they are.
Not really, since we don't know how a Cube works by your own admission. To take the dumbest example ever; LP discs, where literally the difference between reading and writing is how hard the needle presses (especially if you're not interested in whether the needle survives). It is not outlandish to consider that a Cube needs to emit energy in order to get proper reads or re-route certain pathways. If a Sepsitor is made specifically in a manner of an adaptable virus which searches for backup devices (remember, it doesn't only work against Cubes, Cubes are just the only thing we deal with that is consciousness backups), then it'd leave comlogs unaffected because they do not what the Sepsitor is made for similar to how a PC-specific virus uploaded into a MAC does nothing.
Yuandun being on absurd level of evil doesn't make rest of the ISS less evil in any way. You know. In comparison to space Jesus, ISS is bad so it is bad. We can make these claims forever because relatively, there is always more extreme option.
Yes, and that's why I'm making projections from real life tech into the future. Frankly speaking, the easiest way of implementing the sepsitor is also the most horrifying one (seriously, I don't like where all this YJ fluff is taking me, which is kinda depressingly pessimistic sadic): the Cube "cuts" the nerves it is connected to read from the brain, and "hijacks" the body... So in essence the "not running backup" becomes the "brain" of the body... while the "person" is now trapped into his own body, kinda like possessed. However, if that were how the Sepsitor works, changing the way the cube gets the data would be the solution. The inconsistency is, however, simpler: Why not removing all cubes from the people going to war, using the same outdated system Al-Djabel uses for his backups in monthly intervals? So what if you lost (at most) a month of your life, it was a month of war, you got a new body, and no sepsitor can touch you. You can say that humans will shy away from this. But the greeks? Aleph's troops? those would even get an access jack so they can plug better and faster on the machine.
Really? I'm going to have to chase that down, hopefully it has page-number citations. Pretty sure CB would be taking less flak if they'd made the effort.
The thing is we don't have any other divisions to compare them with. Are they supposed to be extreme outliers or are they supposed to be what other divisions are supposed to aspire to?
He's in HSN3 somewhere in the imperial service section. Its basically a quote saying "hi guys, I am the law and I have big automatic weapons supporting me" while raiding a Triad (or Yakuza, can't remember) casino.
Page 64 N3 Human Sphere "Well, in case you didn't notice, here in this backwater, uncivilized place I am the law. And i have massive, powerful automatic weaponry at my disposal..." Imperial Agent, Crane Rank Chung-YAo, during a sting in a Yakuza casino, Jing Qi (Prosperity) Orbital. Human Edge
Why not? They retconned HSN3 by having Yu Jing keep the Japanese emperor in place, so Pandora's box of retcon is open.
That would not happen in the material published now tied to the uprising, they are done and finished. That been said I am not sure if what you said is even a retcon, I need to check it out.
