I'm approching the game as a newbie and i'm wondering if is worth to field a Sectorial for Panoceania (using advantage of Fireteam). I love Military Orders since the models are awesome but after this i really want to know if is a good choiche or a Hard Start for a noobie like me and, if possibile, some lists as example
My experience is that most (not all) people believe that PanO has one of the weaker Vanilla armies so going for a sectorial is an inevitability. The fireteam rules seem complicated at the start but, for your first two games, take a piece of paper reminding you of the bonuses and to stay within coherency of your link leader and you shouldn't have any trouble after that. Beyond the normal trouble of comprehending the crushing weight of Infinity's many rules and abilities! Military Order lists tend to be low order count so requires a bit more thinking before every move as mistakes cost you big. I'll let MO players offer advice from here on end as otherwise I'm talking out my ass (NCA all the way).
MO is tricky. If you start games as MO against other newbie then you might be able to crush reliably few games. If you go against seasoned player then you might have bit of trouble. MO is strange in a way that it on one hand it allows you to make some mistakes (you usually have some HI which have good armor and 2nd wound), on the other hand if you misplay your HI link enemy can really easy neutralize all of them..... I would say that both NCA and ASA are much more reliable, and mayby easier to play (strong ARO options, very good singular assault pieces), while having bit more variety in their builds and much more tools at their disposal.
Heavy Infantry has several drawbacks in the whole, namely hacking. Also, they tend to promote a "rambo mindset" in which you are dependant on single pieces for all of your strategy, and when the enemy neutralizes those the player with no backup plans has effectively lost, regardless of anything else. Fireteams are good, but special care is needed to use the 5-strong ones effectively, usually the 3-strong Haris being a workable option. This is doubly so for new players. Melee is one of the strong points of the Military Orders sectorial, while being good at shooting (more or less the middle point between the shooter YJ HI and the melee-centric JSA HI). However, melee is an expensive and suboptimal way of dealing with stuff in this game (you have to get there, and you will face bullets during your advance); while it is nice to be melee-proficient, it is more of a defensive quality in expensive troops than an offensive one (exceptions do exist, however). If you want to use Military Orders, the first step is locating the Fireteams you can assemble. Fusiliers are mostly out of the picture, since you need 3, and Bipandra, and the Specops Extra to reach a 5 strong link; then we have Order Sergeants, who are essentially the backbone of MO, but their "hat" is "basic, multipurpose troop", and you will usually deploy them with MSV2, infiltration specialists, or bot-hugging backup; Finally, the HI fireteam is a complicated issue here, since MO is comprised of several orders (you have to select a main order, of which you can place all the models of knight the Army program allows you, and then a very limited added number of the other orders). Also, you have a single TAG (a light and fast one, more geared towards anti-infantry). The standard choice is either Santiagos or Hospitalers that you will link with Joan of Arc and/or DeFersen to make it a 5 man link. Other option is to link 2-3 Hospitalers with 3-2 Magister Knights, but this combo is 99% of the time a Hospitaler medic+Hospitaler HMG + 3 cheap Magister knights. After you picked and build the Fireteam you go for the rest of the list. This will usually be made of remotes (specially Bulleteer and Total Reaction, with the 8 points cheap bots there too), maybe some cheerleaders that will remain behind covering the flanks (the aforementioned bot-hugging Order Sargeants, or 3 combi rifle fusiliers), and some special tools (black friar, or other MSV2 troop/TO sargeant). While this looks complicated, it is not really so. Fireteams and syncronized troops follow the same basic rules Coordinated Orders do, and hacking is always there, while the listbuilding is something you can do calmly at home. The complication here is to move and use a group of 5 troops that will receive bullets every time they move, so you have to pick your route very carefully to reach the enemy or achieve your objectives. Other options are Neoterra and Acontecimiento, the last one very loved because the Bagh Mari are a good defensive fireteam (meaning one that remains back and provides cover fire) while they have Nagas, Teucer (a very good sharpshooter), two TAGS (a heavy killer and a mobile light threat) and some nice tricks. Neoterra is, in essence, a 5man Fusilier link, and then some nice toys like the Locust (infiltrator) or the Swiss (ghost rambo), the Aquila (super sharpshooter), the TAGS, and other "loaned" troops like the Devas (very much "great" in their 27pts combi+devabot, but no slouch with sensor or as Lts). The main "fail" PanOceanía has in general is the Engineer/Medic basic options. The Hospitaler Medic saves one of those, but the engineer is needed a lot for repair and remove statuses. Fortunately, the Tech Bee gives him +1 (but it's a 5pts irregular troop herself). In the end, it depends on how much money you want to invest and how much effort you intend to sacrifice here. Essentially, starting with MO will make it an uphill battle, but if that is what motivates you, go ahead and play a lot.
MO is a fine place to start. I think it's more important that you start with a force that's appealing and engaging to you as a player. A couple of Magisters and a Hospitaller HMG backed up by Fusiliers and Order Sergeants is a good low-point value place to start. Get some demos using 3-4 models, then start trying 100-150 point games. I actually think it's good for players to focus on using a rambo unit when they start. It lets them focus on using one unit very very well, getting a feel for how to use the Order system to push an advantage. Then, if/when your primary unit runs into trouble or gets killed, you start forming backup plans using the rest of your list. Soon you'll be using all your units in tandem, with support units helping your heavy-hitters do their job. And that's basically what the game is all about. Welcome to Infinity.
*shrug* Different playstyles, after all. And it is a reality that every list will have a protagonist, be it a rambo or not. Probably the best new player rambo unit could be the HMG Swiss guard, in that regard.
Which again scream more of ASA (Tikbalang, Guarda de Assaulto, Bagh-Mari HMG) or NCA (Swiss Guard, Bulleteer Spitfire, Hexa Spitfire, Aquila) than an MO (as it actually lacks good single rambo units).
You can do an HMG, 2 Magisters, 3 Fusiliers and a couple of Order Sgts at 150 points. 8 Orders isn't bad at that level.
This is completly fine and actually quite powerfull, I was just refering to a fact that MO won't be much better (power level) than said Hosp+Magister link :) Also what is quite nice is Infinity RECON done by Ash Baker, it is really quite nice "downgrade" of Infinity into 150pts, which also balances few things (like no TAGs in 150pts games xD, limited camo/irregular/HI etc.). Its really good. Infinity RECON: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3iUmocmCYCUQjU0NTJfcUV0QUE/view?usp=sharing
Ah okay I understand. Yeah I hear you, getting comfortable and fluid with that link is one of the few really great ways to play MO (based on my limited knowledge.) Cool and interesting things can be done with Specialist Sergeants too, so that's also a good skill for a new player to practice and learn to maximize.
Thanks guys for all the answer! I've summed up all and i think i can try to handle some match with MO and after some practice see the other two sectorial. Btw, the list you suggested to me is like this? Military Orders ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 2 FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) KNIGHT HOSPITALLER HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 41) ORDER SERGEANT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 3 SWC | 149 Points Open in Infinity Army How the 2 impetuos Order are handled while in fireteam?
Ran a Squalo with 8 Orders in a 150 points EL game with Hackers not enabled yet. If he hadn't almost died to Kuang Shi Chainrifle and Pistol AROs I'd have been inclined to agree. Taking a closer look Recon fails to meet it's own goal. The limitations don't work unless you do it like COMBAT did for WHFB 8th Edition. If you ban MO from running a HI Link but do nothing to prevent Camo spam your concept has failed. We had fun exploiting the loopholes in Recon as far as we could though - which is kind of the opposite of it's original purpose. Back to topic @Arkaon1125 I wish I could tell you MO or Infinity is easy, bit it never is. The ground level starts lower for some Factions and higher for others, but the ceiling is fairly even. MO is one of the harder ones to start with. No Smoke, some of the worst Hacking there is in a Faction vulnerable against it, as well as reliant on Links. A lot of Profiles also come loaded with CC Stats and Skills - something that can be quite demanding to get to work without the previously mentioned Smoke. That said the HI Links are contender for the best ones in the game, AVA Total cheap and effective TO Infiltrators, as well as several PanO goodies (readily available Visors, Bulleteer & other REMs, Blackfriar, etc). I had the pleasure to start with Vanilla PanO and MO - they have been a harsh teacher but are rewarding to play and win with. As a cherry on top the current winner of Interplanetario was running MO with Hospitaler + Magister Links in both of his lists. Guess it also helps to mention most of the entire Sectorial just got new models over the last year.
Recon+ for a better 150 point experience. Another level of improvement for smaller game play. They again took away any contingenties that could make certain rules more difficult in smaller games like impetuous orders etc etc. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3FInSZxYBnkUEWEc3jXmcf MO has some fantastic models and if they appeal to you that is the best part. Every Sectorial or Faction has there own learning curve some more difficult then others. Continue to play what you have if you want to improve. There is no magic army or list. Play and improve that is it. No need for Luck when you have God on your side. Deo Vindice
I think MO can actually achieve the title of worst hacking sectorial (among the ones which kinda need it). Well would say that RECON goal is a semi balanced appraoch for small games for newbies. Obviously most notorious offender here is vanilla Ariadna with their camo spam (which is slitgthly handles by irregular limitations). But I've run some funky MO list once with it (double TOFOOS + Tueton + Magister, quite fun one). @Arkaon1125 rule of cool is usually best appraoch. Start the faction which most appeal to you with it's estetic and just check if it's gameplay is exactly against what you like to play (or you think you like to play).
Thanks to all! I will share some outcome of future playtest and try to ask some hint to avoid common mistakes for example! PS: TOFOOS means To Camouflage With Forward Observer? (So the Order Sergeant with mines?)
Yes. Thermo Optic Forward Observer Order Sergeant SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
